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Rugby League World - April 2014
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#1 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

Anybody got any news about what happened at the north West Counties League meeting last night? I do hope it is continuing.



#2 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

Anybody got any news about what happened at the north West Counties League meeting last night? I do hope it is continuing.

 

From what information I can gather Roost, they're going to be operating this coming season with 9 or 11 teams. I don't know the teams only that Phil Hodgson carried a bit in this week's League Express



#3 mmp

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:45 PM

From what information I can gather Roost, they're going to be operating this coming season with 9 or 11 teams. I don't know the teams only that Phil Hodgson carried a bit in this week's League Express


Any names?
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#4 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:38 PM

Thank you. I read Phil's article. I'm guessing that the teams that have dropped out of the NWML this summer (Cadishead, Leyland, Rylands etc) will be involved with maybe Dalton and the other 7 that finished last season with a play off. I can't confirm but its a possibility that Eccles may enter their second team. I hear Irlam Hornets will be in but are planning to move to Summer next year.



#5 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:54 PM

Thank you. I read Phil's article. I'm guessing that the teams that have dropped out of the NWML this summer (Cadishead, Leyland, Rylands etc) will be involved with maybe Dalton and the other 7 that finished last season with a play off. I can't confirm but its a possibility that Eccles may enter their second team. I hear Irlam Hornets will be in but are planning to move to Summer next year.

 

You're about right there i think Roost, I've heard that Dalton are holding out for a winter league after getting no change from Pennine ARL - which in my opinion was a big ask - and the seven that finished last season are up for it once again. But I don't think that Rylands are going for it.

 

From what I'm hearing is that the RFL have got an interest and given that they've given Neil Girvin a 12 month contract things seem to become clear.

 

It would be good to see the likes of Eccles trying their hand in the league as I'm sure that there are plenty of players still looking for a winter team and it would do the clubhouse a world of good.

 

Well enough speculation and we'll have to wait until the i's are dotted and t's are crossed until we know what's happening and even then things can change overnight



#6 Marauder

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:03 PM

You're about right there i think Roost, I've heard that Dalton are holding out for a winter league after getting no change from Pennine ARL - which in my opinion was a big ask - and the seven that finished last season are up for it once again. But I don't think that Rylands are going for it.

 

From what I'm hearing is that the RFL have got an interest and given that they've given Neil Girvin a 12 month contract things seem to become clear.

 

It would be good to see the likes of Eccles trying their hand in the league as I'm sure that there are plenty of players still looking for a winter team and it would do the clubhouse a world of good.

 

Well enough speculation and we'll have to wait until the i's are dotted and t's are crossed until we know what's happening and even then things can change overnight

I was told by my clubs secretary that we where all for Dalton joining the Pennine.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#7 mmp

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:02 PM

I don't think that all those that finished last year are going for it again...a number have fully committed to summer. Widnes Tigers seem far better now than they did over winter, Rylands have grown and have said to me they are staying summer, Langworthy and Irlam are going summer next year (but could do a winter comp to help prepare possibly).

 

And some of those names above who have pulled out of the formal summer comp this year are coming back in in lower divisions next year - again, I don't see them playing out a league season in winter if they play any games at all.


Edited by mmp, 20 August 2013 - 08:15 PM.

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#8 TaxiEgg

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

I don't think that all those that finished last year are going for it again...a number have fully committed to summer. Widnes Tigers seem far better now than they did over winter, Rylands have grown and have said to me they are staying summer, Langworthy and Irlam are going summer next year (but could do a winter comp to help prepare possibly).
 
And some of those names above who have pulled out of the formal summer comp this year are coming back in in lower divisions next year - again, I don't see them playing out a league season in winter if they play any games at all.


http://www.northwest...tch_day/results


24-0 is a popular score Mike !

Edited by TaxiEgg, 21 August 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#9 mmp

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:07 PM

http://www.northwest...tch_day/results24-0 is a popular score Mike !


Don't see the relevance of your post?

I've no problem with clubs/players playing winter so thought I'd contribute to a thread about it as amost every other thread has been de-railed by irrelevent posts.

My point is, I'm not sure there are many sides that will complete a full winter unless the season ends before the summer season starts as even clubs that might enter see themselves as playing summer next year.

Best thing to do in my view is create a merit competition in winter to allow a greater number of sides who might want to play some games a chance to play some fixtures as I think that will get a better response; I just don't think there are enough clubs wanting a proper league for it to actually happen (it will be like last years - drop outs/add ins week by week).
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#10 Spidey

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 03:10 PM

Crosfields A are playing Eccleston Vikings in a friendly on 31st August in preperation for them entering the Winter competition, don't know how closely they are linked to Eccleston Lions



#11 TaxiEgg

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

Mike the relevance is that we have a problem with games not being played , and im sorry but in my opinion merit groups are for children not adults .

Watering the game down were is does not matter if you play or not is damaging for the fabric of the game .

 

Just my opinion  the NW mens league is a competition is it not ?



#12 mmp

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:18 AM

There are some issues as everyone recognises and discussed at the NW Mens League meeting but the CLUBS are choosing their path here.

Any club who wants to play winter can choose to play it as the option is there. If enough come forward to create a full league over the winter then that's a good thing.

 

However, the game surely wants to grow does it not? A merit league is a participation tool. It allows more people to play in circumstances when they couldn't before. It's great to see a club like Hope Valley play games, or East Manchester this year, or to have seen Mancunians move from merit leagues into the full NW Mens League Div 4 this year. It's a stepping stone between having 'interest' in playing (possibly by a group of novices who are effectively going to be on a hiding to nothing) to being able to put together a group of 25 who want to play regularly who have developed some experience.  Our sport doesnt have the luxury of division after division after division of 'social rugby' that gives games to new people to play and that gives aging players or people who can only do 1 week in 3 (which is going to happen more and more).  Where WE can, WE the sport needs to offer the opportunity to play.

 

Going back to the point of the thread. There will be some clubs/players who want to play some winter games but because of their commitment to a summer season next year they will not want to join a formal winter league - that's their choice. I think there will be more players/clubs in this position than wanting to commit to a full winter season. If there is enough to run a full league (so at least 8 clubs, fully committed) then that's great, but what about the others? why not do something the sport will benefit from by doing something to cater for them...


Edited by mmp, 22 August 2013 - 06:22 AM.

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#13 Pottsy

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:46 AM

Mike the relevance is that we have a problem with games not being played , and im sorry but in my opinion merit groups are for children not adults .
Watering the game down were is does not matter if you play or not is damaging for the fabric of the game .

Just my opinion the NW mens league is a competition is it not ?


I think you're missing the point with merit leagues if you think they're for 'children.'

They're a priceless development tool when administered properly. They allow new clubs to dip a toe in the water before committing to a structured league and also provide flexibility for 'A' teams during holiday periods etc.

It seems strange when you're complaining about forfeited games that you'd choose to criticise one of the most effective ways of reducing 24-0 scorelines.

#14 Spidey

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:38 AM

I think you're missing the point with merit leagues if you think they're for 'children.'

They're a priceless development tool when administered properly. They allow new clubs to dip a toe in the water before committing to a structured league and also provide flexibility for 'A' teams during holiday periods etc.

It seems strange when you're complaining about forfeited games that you'd choose to criticise one of the most effective ways of reducing 24-0 scorelines.

 

Crosfields A ended up in division three this year, as it stands if we had entered the merit league we probably would have played more games, I think 4 or 5 teams have dropped out of the league over the year.  We're hoping to be in a better division next season, and with two U18s teams coming through to Open Age, the Merit League would be a great start for a third team

 

Merit leagues are a great concept for "social" teams or new teams, and a great stepping stone for assessing teams before they enter the competition proper



#15 TaxiEgg

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:13 AM

Irrespective of where you play in leagues competitive or merit the simple fact is games are getting cancelled and players are drifting out of the game , prominent long standing clubs like Wigan St Patricks and Blackrook  are not fulfilling fixtures that's when alarm bells should start ringing .

 

I,m sorry if people don't agree with me but for adults rugby league should be fully competitive with meaningful fixtures were each game should matter my point is if we keep on watering down the commitment to play, we will lose the very fabric of the sport and we will not produce the future stars .

17/29 games conceded last week illustrates my point , by saying it does not matter is at best naïve .



#16 Marauder

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

There are some issues as everyone recognises and discussed at the NW Mens League meeting but the CLUBS are choosing their path here.

Any club who wants to play winter can choose to play it as the option is there. If enough come forward to create a full league over the winter then that's a good thing.

 

However, the game surely wants to grow does it not? A merit league is a participation tool. It allows more people to play in circumstances when they couldn't before. It's great to see a club like Hope Valley play games, or East Manchester this year, or to have seen Mancunians move from merit leagues into the full NW Mens League Div 4 this year. It's a stepping stone between having 'interest' in playing (possibly by a group of novices who are effectively going to be on a hiding to nothing) to being able to put together a group of 25 who want to play regularly who have developed some experience.  Our sport doesnt have the luxury of division after division after division of 'social rugby' that gives games to new people to play and that gives aging players or people who can only do 1 week in 3 (which is going to happen more and more).  Where WE can, WE the sport needs to offer the opportunity to play.

 

Going back to the point of the thread. There will be some clubs/players who want to play some winter games but because of their commitment to a summer season next year they will not want to join a formal winter league - that's their choice. I think there will be more players/clubs in this position than wanting to commit to a full winter season. If there is enough to run a full league (so at least 8 clubs, fully committed) then that's great, but what about the others? why not do something the sport will benefit from by doing something to cater for them...

What your quoting is exactly the reverse of the situation 3 years ago so why given a good structure couldn't the drift back to a traditional season happen ?

 

If I remember correctly Bank Quay where one of the first clubs to say they where going summer as the trickle became a flood, lets look at Bank Quay now after 18 months (don't seem to be happy bunnies)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#17 Spidey

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:33 AM

Irrespective of where you play in leagues competitive or merit the simple fact is games are getting cancelled and players are drifting out of the game , prominent long standing clubs like Wigan St Patricks and Blackrook  are not fulfilling fixtures that's when alarm bells should start ringing .

 

I,m sorry if people don't agree with me but for adults rugby league should be fully competitive with meaningful fixtures were each game should matter my point is if we keep on watering down the commitment to play, we will lose the very fabric of the sport and we will not produce the future stars .

17/29 games conceded last week illustrates my point , by saying it does not matter is at best naïve .

 

It is a worry that established teams are struggling.   I don't think Blackbrook were one of them though



#18 Leighton10

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

What your quoting is exactly the reverse of the situation 3 years ago so why given a good structure couldn't the drift back to a traditional season happen ?
 
If I remember correctly Bank Quay where one of the first clubs to say they where going summer as the trickle became a flood, lets look at Bank Quay now after 18 months (don't seem to be happy bunnies)


Last season bqb finished as league leaders and widnes st maries vikings struggeled due to playing winter and summer with no breaks. They didnt win a game all year due to lack of interest and injuries. This year tho withlots of hard work and commmitment things have changed around and are now top of nwml and only lost 1 league game all year. Teams have blips and i believe thts all this is for bqb. They stil have gud players. Im sure they will come bck strong again next year and higher then 6th place. Amerit league is a gud option to keep people in the game who cant fully commit orhave work commitments, tht way they can build there team and confidence. Can only b gud for rugby tohave more ppl involved.

#19 Marauder

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:44 AM

Last season bqb finished as league leaders and widnes st maries vikings struggeled due to playing winter and summer with no breaks. They didnt win a game all year due to lack of interest and injuries. This year tho withlots of hard work and commmitment things have changed around and are now top of nwml and only lost 1 league game all year. Teams have blips and i believe thts all this is for bqb. They stil have gud players. Im sure they will come bck strong again next year and higher then 6th place. Amerit league is a gud option to keep people in the game who cant fully commit orhave work commitments, tht way they can build there team and confidence. Can only b gud for rugby tohave more ppl involved.

They do have good players but what the 3 lads who play for them said was they can not get their best 17 onto a team sheet because of other distractions during the summer and this has resulted in a few going to other clubs, this suggests to me it may take another couple of seasons for it to settle down and then it will be with a reduced number of clubs (Didn't Mr Gent call it collateral damage)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#20 Spidey

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:47 AM

They do have good players but what the 3 lads who play for them said was they can not get their best 17 onto a team sheet because of other distractions during the summer and this has resulted in a few going to other clubs, this suggests to me it may take another couple of seasons for it to settle down and then it will be with a reduced number of clubs (Didn't Mr Gent call it collateral damage)

 

I think part of BQB's issues were that they got accustomed to winning all the time, as soon as results were not going their way that's when the "distractions" got in the way.  






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