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#181 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

I'm told there is quite a few considering their position .

 

For me Taxi the teams considering are not helping themselves or the league, they need to make a firm commitment and get off the fence. I hear in the grapevine that the RFL are paying some attention to this particular league it can't be a guilty conscience over their officers' actions a couple of years ago,


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 27 August 2013 - 03:27 PM.


#182 Marauder

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:33 PM

For me Taxi the teams considering are not helping themselves or the league, they need to make a firm commitment and get off the fence. I hear in the grapevine that the RFL are paying some attention to this particular league it can't be a guilty conscience over their officers' actions a couple of years ago,

So the Garvin appointment (On pay) could be a toe hold into winter rugby and an attempt to guide the competition into signing the operational rules and away from BARLA.

"

Just saying like because it's looking like a mirror image of "I think it was a good deal for the - - -   <-------- Fit in the missing letters


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#183 mmp

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:35 PM

From that list MMP, just looks like the 11 who competed last year along with Eccleston Lions

 

May be wrong of course.   I know Irlam are recruiting at the moment also, so there's two definites

 

i'm not sure whether that website is just including the 11 from last year as they'd have been in the database for the web-site or, whether it's actually a reflection of applications.  same for the Eccleston site, has someone manually input the names based on attendees at the meeting? at least across the lists 2/3 there that I'd question from having spoke to them over the summer when at games with them or other events.

 

i don't know how they'd structure it though - right ball-ache!


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#184 mmp

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:40 PM

I don't know anything about any RFL interest or involvement but to add to the speculation, it could be that the RFL are helping CLUBS play when CLUBS want to play! that'd be a right conspiracy wouldnt it!


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#185 Marauder

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:47 PM

I don't know anything about any RFL interest or involvement but to add to the speculation, it could be that the RFL are helping CLUBS play when CLUBS want to play! that'd be a right conspiracy wouldnt it!

I've no problem with that (Didn't you know about Girvin) but why doesn't the RFL promote a winter season on it's website?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#186 mmp

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

I've no problem with that (Didn't you know about Girvin) but why doesn't the RFL promote a winter season on it's website?

 

I've seen it mentioned here and on another site.  95% of the stuff on here ends up being wrong so I'd say i "know" nothing about it.

 

however, i'm guessing it is an RFL maintained site (it's using the same site structure as all the other RFL maintained sites).  


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#187 TaxiEgg

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:22 PM

Why is no one promoting the league in being pro active in approaching clubs to consider running a team in the more traditional season.
And yes Mmp it could be used to help clubs build a summer based team . For me if the RFL are giving an helping hand are they just not filling the void left by the Barla board ?

#188 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:10 PM

This debate should be no longer about summer or winter playing seasons or preferences but the survival of the open age amatuer game.

Theres an old saying in wigan something along the lines of " if things dont change they will stop as they are".

Can we afford for the open age game to continue in its current format - that is the big big question

But who is prepared to answer it?

#189 Pottsy

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:23 PM

My opinions on winter/summer are unimportant but, for what it's worth, I think what's needed here is a simple element: choice.

Perhaps if the RFL or another body (eg, the Pennine League) were to set up and administer a 'national' standards driven league during the 'traditional' winter months, the clubs could choose their own path.

I don't see a consensus emerging here any time soon, so perhaps the clubs need to have viable options in whichever season they deem most appropriate for their needs.

#190 Marauder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

My opinions on winter/summer are unimportant but, for what it's worth, I think what's needed here is a simple element: choice.

Perhaps if the RFL or another body (eg, the Pennine League) were to set up and administer a 'national' standards driven league during the 'traditional' winter months, the clubs could choose their own path.

I don't see a consensus emerging here any time soon, so perhaps the clubs need to have viable options in whichever season they deem most appropriate for their needs.

The reason why this league has not been set up at the moment is simply because no new league can just be set up without the Community boards consent, this is also the reason a winter based juniors have also not got off the ground at the moment (You only have to look at the make up of the Community board committee to see which side of the fence it lies)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#191 sbull

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:24 PM

The reason why this league has not been set up at the moment is simply because no new league can just be set up without the Community boards consent, this is also the reason a winter based juniors have also not got off the ground at the moment (You only have to look at the make up of the Community board committee to see which side of the fence it lies)


Could a new league not be set up outside there control ?

Edited by sbull, 29 August 2013 - 12:24 PM.


#192 Marauder

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

Could a new league not be set up outside there control ?

I believe that is what is being looked at (I'm sure someone on here will be further up the food chain and know a little more about this)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#193 Pottsy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:20 PM

This is all very tribal and political, isn't it?

#194 sbull

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:40 PM

This is all very tribal and political, isn't it?

Not really, you can not deny there is masses of interest in playing in winter out there, so why not let the ones who want to play form there own league, it's the easiest thing in the world to say if you done like summer find somewhere else to play but I guarantee they won't say those comments willy nilly if clubs do actually have a choice to play in winter at the same standard,
Why do you think the RFL are promoting summer so much, if they really cared about the game overall they would not try to block the teams who want to move back,
You have Hurd on here time and time again from coaches whos views I might had, are much better placed then most to judge,
No one is fighting summer, there just walking away from the game because its not for them.

#195 Pottsy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:04 PM

No problem with any of that. I'm pro choice.

#196 tim2

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

The main issue I have with having 2 seasons is handling the overlap and players flitting between seasons and clubs, altering the integrity of one or the other.

I'll try to summarise what I think based only on Open Age, for the moment.

Outside the heartlands it's pretty simple. We only play summer and the issue for each region is mainly the length of the season and the reliance, or otherwise, on Rugby Union. Just like cricket, we cope with people taking holidays and going to festivals. There are some issues related to dual registration and also the number of clubs capable of playing at a "Tier 3" level, but I think this is an iterative process and, because we are really all going into uncharted territory, not blighted by too much history.

Obviously things become more complex in the traditional regions. Reaching a solution whereby enough choice is available to all in both the March-November and September-May seasons is fraught with problems. If a club wants to play at the highest level it can, both on the field and against clubs with appropriate facilities and under a strong league management, there is currently only one choice. If that were to fragment into two it would certainly dilute Tier 3 and the standards that have been set at that level. Some clubs, for financial and logistical reasons, need to play regionally. So, you have to also offer a regional option of sufficient variety of standard that makes it viable. If too few clubs choose one season over the other, the gap in standards makes it not viable. Also, duplication of all levels spreads volunteer resources thinly - you are running multiple leagues all year long that need administrators.

What about the players who love playing all the time and find a club to play for for part of the season that is outside their main club's season. They are exercising their choice to play, and I wouldn't really want to stop people playing the game. But what effect does this have on competition integrity?

Then you get the bigger clubs who want it all - play in both seasons, keep the clubhouse ticking over all the time, give all their players a choice. Can that really work during the crossovers? How does that affect the strength of the club at various times of the year?

Last, and not least, the interaction with the professional game. I personally believe that you should only play for one club at any one time. My opinion? If the pro game can't afford to run a reserve comp, that's too bad and its a problem for the pro game to resolve by getting more money in. Using the community game to solve that problem is a bad idea. For me, pro clubs should take the long view on this, and help community clubs to drastically increase the number of players playing the game from as young an age as possible. They should work to improve standards of coaching in the community game but should not, gain my opinion only, select players below the age of 16. If we want junior rep football, which actually has been a good recruitment tool for us in the Midlands in the past, then it should be properly integrated with the community season. The current system is a shambles. Sorry, didn't mean to talk about the junior game but I couldn't help myself.

So, to summarise - choice is indeed a fine thing, but only if you have enough bandwidth to offer a full choice in both seasons. As of now, it seems we are spreading ourselves very thinly indeed.
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#197 TaxiEgg

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:00 PM

Superb post Tim2 and sums everything up , now its time for all parties to consider the game as a whole and not just their own element .

Which hopefully will begin tomorrow with the Youth and junior forum and on Monday with the Nw regional leagues and the RFL club and competition managers .



#198 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:09 AM

Superb post Tim2 and sums everything up , now its time for all parties to consider the game as a whole and not just their own element .

Which hopefully will begin tomorrow with the Youth and junior forum and on Monday with the Nw regional leagues and the RFL club and competition managers .

 

You'd like to think that BARLA would now come out of hiding and be playing its full part - new regime and everything, but there doesn't seem to be much news emerging from West Yorkshire House lately. Following the honeymoon period after everyone is comfortably settled in position and all the introductions have been made, it seems that it's back to normal and goes against the old  adage that, "No news is good news."

 

There is however a BARLA Open Age Council meeting on Sunday 1st September, it'll be interesting to hear the news from that one, when maybe the master-plan if any is announced.


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 31 August 2013 - 07:14 AM.


#199 Marauder

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:41 AM

You'd like to think that BARLA would now come out of hiding and be playing its full part - new regime and everything, but there doesn't seem to be much news emerging from West Yorkshire House lately. Following the honeymoon period after everyone is comfortably settled in position and all the introductions have been made, it seems that it's back to normal and goes against the old  adage that, "No news is good news."

 

There is however a BARLA Open Age Council meeting on Sunday 1st September, it'll be interesting to hear the news from that one, when maybe the master-plan if any is announced.

Maybe the master-plan needs asking about


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#200 TaxiEgg

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:27 PM

I would not hold your breaths chaps .




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