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Helpdesk - police


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#1 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:50 AM

Last week whilst I was touring with my band, Mrs the Leit called to say that a car had crashed into our garden.  There were four people in the vehicle, all of whom needed hospital treatment and were clearly traumatised by their experience. After calling for ambulances, she called for the police.  The driver, a teenage girl, was driving on a provisional licence.  To set the scene, I live on a winding single track road which has the national speed limit applied.  The car had demolished my fence, moved a significant amount of earth and was facing the opposite way to the direction that it had arrived from.
 
The ONLY conclusion that can possibly be made is that excessive speed was involved on the nearby tight bend, and then the car had hit my neighbour’s banked front garden before getting airborne and arriving in my laurel tree.  It’s safe to say it won’t have been a pleasant experience for those in the car, and had anyone been walking or driving the other way then it could have been much worse.  Similarly had it been a few feet to the side it would have either gone down a significant embankment or hit my house.  The police came and took names, and a statement from my wife. They recovered the vehicle around midnight.  The next morning on inspection it was clear that they’d left quite a large selection of debris scattered around my garden (wing mirrors, whole body panels, bits of engine), and brushed all the broken glass from the highway onto my gravel/rough tarmac drive which is all but impossible to remove. 
 
My wife contacted them to ask how they planned to recover the remainder of the car, and was told that she could take it to the tip as because it was off the public highway it had nothing to do with them.  She also asked how she should get the damage to our property paid for and was told that it was up to her to arrange this with the driver and that she should have swapped details with her on the night (as she helped her into the ambulance?).   The driver is not to be charged with anything other than driving without insurance/licence which is staggering to me as they have clearly left the road at significant speed in good light and dry conditions and came very close to killing themselves and/or others.
 
She’s chased several times for the rest of the car to be removed, to be told that it’s her responsibility.  It would also seem that it’s our responsibility to pay for a replacement fence.  My take on it is that our property has been damaged in a criminal act (dangerous driving, driving without insurance, driving without a licence) and that the pesky little sods that did this should shove us a few bob at the direction of the court.
 
I’m not best pleased.  What are my options?

We feel totally let down by the police. They have done no investigation in to the accident and will not issue a crime number. The driver will get three points and a fine lower than our costs.

#2 gazza77

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:54 AM

Last week whilst I was touring with my band, Mrs the Leit called to say that a car had crashed into our garden.  There were four people in the vehicle, all of whom needed hospital treatment and were clearly traumatised by their experience. After calling for ambulances, she called for the police.  The driver, a teenage girl, was driving on a provisional licence.  To set the scene, I live on a winding single track road which has the national speed limit applied.  The car had demolished my fence, moved a significant amount of earth and was facing the opposite way to the direction that it had arrived from.
 
The ONLY conclusion that can possibly be made is that excessive speed was involved on the nearby tight bend, and then the car had hit my neighbour’s banked front garden before getting airborne and arriving in my laurel tree.  It’s safe to say it won’t have been a pleasant experience for those in the car, and had anyone been walking or driving the other way then it could have been much worse.  Similarly had it been a few feet to the side it would have either gone down a significant embankment or hit my house.  The police came and took names, and a statement from my wife. They recovered the vehicle around midnight.  The next morning on inspection it was clear that they’d left quite a large selection of debris scattered around my garden (wing mirrors, whole body panels, bits of engine), and brushed all the broken glass from the highway onto my gravel/rough tarmac drive which is all but impossible to remove. 
 
My wife contacted them to ask how they planned to recover the remainder of the car, and was told that she could take it to the tip as because it was off the public highway it had nothing to do with them.  She also asked how she should get the damage to our property paid for and was told that it was up to her to arrange this with the driver and that she should have swapped details with her on the night (as she helped her into the ambulance?).   The driver is not to be charged with anything other than driving without insurance/licence which is staggering to me as they have clearly left the road at significant speed in good light and dry conditions and came very close to killing themselves and/or others.
 
She’s chased several times for the rest of the car to be removed, to be told that it’s her responsibility.  It would also seem that it’s our responsibility to pay for a replacement fence.  My take on it is that our property has been damaged in a criminal act (dangerous driving, driving without insurance, driving without a licence) and that the pesky little sods that did this should shove us a few bob at the direction of the court.
 
I’m not best pleased.  What are my options?

We feel totally let down by the police. They have done no investigation in to the accident and will not issue a crime number. The driver will get three points and a fine lower than our costs.

 I'd suspect you should be contacting the driver's insurance company. Assuming they had insurance that is. Any costs of returning your property to it's previous condition, including the clearance of debris.

 

If they were uninsured, it's either a civil case against the driver, or try here.

 

http://www.mib.org.u...ent/Default.htm


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#3 Frank Machin

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:01 AM

No idea.

 

Why not try these lot?

 

http://www.expertanswers.co.uk/



#4 ckn

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

The easiest way to get it fixed is to contact your household insurers, start the claim process and get them to do the work for you, that's what you pay them for after all.  The police will disclose the driver's information to your insurers but rarely will to you without a fight.  The problem is that if she's uninsured as you mentioned then you're in for a longer fight to convince someone, probably the Motor Insurers' Bureau, to pay for it if your insurers get huffy.

 

On the other stuff, it's an easy win for the police if she admitted the insurance/license stuff, that's a conviction for their stats.  There's absolutely no incentive for them to fight to prove speeding or negligence.

 

Also, they're right in that the debris is on private property so it's not their job to fix it.  I'd recommend that you ask your council's highways team to come assess the roadside and boundary for damage and they'll fix that but anything that's on private land is your problem; you'd need to highlight (I didn't say exaggerate ;)) any roadside safety issues to get them to come out quickly though as anything non-urgent will take them weeks to get around to even assessing.


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#5 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:44 AM

My wife asked the police why they'd removed the car, they said it was it was their job to do so. She asked why they'd only removed part of it. I'm tempted to remove the rest and invoice them for my time and effort.

I'm disgusted at their attitude. It does little to prevent future incidents.

I don't want to take a civil case, nor does my wife want to deal with the scroats involved.

#6 ckn

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:53 AM

My wife asked the police why they'd removed the car, they said it was it was their job to do so. She asked why they'd only removed part of it. I'm tempted to remove the rest and invoice them for my time and effort.

I'm disgusted at their attitude. It does little to prevent future incidents.

I don't want to take a civil case, nor does my wife want to deal with the scroats involved.

You're right on that.  The problem is that the police in most parts of the UK have had this part of their budget hacked away to preserve the more emergency service side.  Non-emergency services from the police in many counties are now severely limited to the point of being nominal reporting services only.  For example, Suffolk police have had their overall budget cut by 15% but have extra duties now that the councils refuse to do many joint-responsibility jobs due to their own budget cuts.

 

The choice for almost every police force is to cut non-emergency services like the ones impacting you or cut front-line services for emergency response and civil order duties.

The only thing I can recommend that might help is that most police forces run local "safer neighbourhood" teams staffed by the older, more relaxed police who tend to have a more friendly approach and have more time to help.  Have a look at your police force's website and see if you can find local team contacts, you might just get a PCSO visit but it'll generally be someone who can get you answers that you have no hope of getting.

 

Finally, you shouldn't have to deal with anything if your property insurance is good enough to handle it all for you.


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#7 JohnM

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:04 AM

Its what your insurance is for. Its not the police job to clear up after the scroats. It may be hard these days to know what is the police's job, of course, because the uberscroats and law breakers at the Guardian are taking up all their time.(except Ben Goldacre who is ok cos his ma is Nootia Fox)

#8 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:32 PM


Finally, you shouldn't have to deal with anything if your property insurance is good enough to handle it all for you.


I'd have to deal with the excess though and that's will be more than the perpetrators are fined.

I want the debris removed, and I want the glass removed that the police put there.

They're quite happy to visit my son's pre-school but not bothered about dealing with criminal acts.

#9 Severus

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:36 PM

I'm afraid it's one of those annoyances in life. Someone else acts irresponsibly and innocent people are left to clear up the mess and foot the bill. I take it you contacted the driver to see if she would pay for the damages she caused.


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#10 Tiny Tim

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

I'd have to deal with the excess though and that's will be more than the perpetrators are fined.

I want the debris removed, and I want the glass removed that the police put there.

They're quite happy to visit my son's pre-school but not bothered about dealing with criminal acts.

Do you have legal cover as part of your home insurance? If so you could ask them to recover your uninsured losses (i.e. the excess).


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#11 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:56 PM

I'm afraid it's one of those annoyances in life. Someone else acts irresponsibly and innocent people are left to clear up the mess and foot the bill. I take it you contacted the driver to see if she would pay for the damages she caused.


I think you're right. I wanted to replace the fence with a wall anyway.... Glad I hadn't done this already or there could have been deaths.

I just want the lazy thick police personnel to clear up after themselves and to actually do their job.

The police don't help their own image by telling my wife she should have exchanged details directly with the criminals involved as they were getting in to ambulances.

#12 SE4Wire

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:56 PM

I'd suspect you should be contacting the driver's insurance company. Assuming they had insurance that is. Any costs of returning your property to it's previous condition, including the clearance of debris.

If they were uninsured, it's either a civil case against the driver, or try here.

http://www.mib.org.u...ent/Default.htm


This. Do you have the driver's details? They are liable for any damage caused by their negligence (which their insurers will be on the hook for), if you check the MID (www.askmid.com) you can find out who the vehicle is insured with. If insured then that insurer will probably be on hook (either under contract or section 75), if not insure you can contact the MIB under their uninsured driver scheme.

If it is insured you want to find the number for the Innocent Third Party team. I'm guessing they'll be keen to sort out the work quickly rather than make you instruct a solicitor increasing their eventual costs.

#13 Saint Billinge

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:15 PM

Does your insurance policy cover you for uninsured drivers (depending on terms and conditions) and did you obtain the registration of the vehicle involved?

 

Many don't bother with legal cover because of the cost but it does make sense when these things happen. Thankfully, I'm coverd by my trade union and it has come in handy twice. 


Edited by Saint Billinge, 22 August 2013 - 06:23 PM.


#14 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:46 PM

Does your insurance policy cover you for uninsured drivers (depending on terms and conditions) and did you obtain the registration of the vehicle involved?
 
Many don't bother with legal cover because of the cost but it does make sense when these things happen. Thankfully, I'm coverd by my trade union and it has come in handy twice.


I don't know. I'm abroad at the moment. Regardless of this I don't want be be pursuing a group of people through the courts who already know where we live and who my wife informs me "weren't the brightest". It sounds silly but I just want the moronic coppers that thought it was a bright idea to sweep broken glass on to my rough Tarmac drive to sort it out, charge the morons who could have killed people, and to generally do their job.

My wife has been advised "off the record" by more than one civvie on the 111 service to report it to professional standards, as they have been completely appalled by the attitude of the police. I cannot stress just how difficult it would be to crash into my garden, and how obvious it is that bits of car still remain.

#15 Saint Billinge

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:27 PM

I don't know. I'm abroad at the moment. Regardless of this I don't want be be pursuing a group of people through the courts who already know where we live and who my wife informs me "weren't the brightest". It sounds silly but I just want the moronic coppers that thought it was a bright idea to sweep broken glass on to my rough Tarmac drive to sort it out, charge the morons who could have killed people, and to generally do their job.

My wife has been advised "off the record" by more than one civvie on the 111 service to report it to professional standards, as they have been completely appalled by the attitude of the police. I cannot stress just how difficult it would be to crash into my garden, and how obvious it is that bits of car still remain.

 

Like someone has said, household insurance is more likely to cover you, depending on the terms and conditions. In hindsight, cover against uninsured drivers wouldn't be of help. Also, check if you have legal cover on your household policy.

 

As for the police, it seems they are getting less involved in many incidents.

 

PS

 

There have been about 50 car accidents on the dangerous road junction where I live, with me ending up clearing the bits of debris on many occasions. Some who attend the scene of an accident don't even know what a brush is!


Edited by Saint Billinge, 22 August 2013 - 08:51 PM.





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