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Rugby League World - April 2014
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Syria and Obama


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#261 archibald

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 05:53 PM

Just as a matter of interest, I'm sure in 2011 Ed gave his full support on our intervention in Libya.


Edited by archibald, 31 August 2013 - 05:53 PM.


#262 ckn

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:11 PM

Obama was very gracious towards Britain, far more so than John Kerry.

 

The debate in Congress will be interesting...  I wonder how much arms lobbyist money will be waggled at Congresscritters?


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#263 John Drake

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:13 PM

Just as a matter of interest, I'm sure in 2011 Ed gave his full support on our intervention in Libya.


The Libyan intervention was authorised by the UN.
http://en.wikipedia....ention_in_Libya

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#264 archibald

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

The Libyan intervention was authorised by the UN.
http://en.wikipedia....ention_in_Libya

He never let get this as far as the UN. Still. I'm sure the Syrians being gassed will understand.


Edited by archibald, 31 August 2013 - 06:26 PM.


#265 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:31 PM

Unless Obama recalls congress, there will be no vote till the 9th. 

 

Urgency out of the window.  Cameron was rushing (no UN report) because presumably he was being pushed by the USA for swift action.  Now the US has slowed and left Cameron out to dry.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#266 John Drake

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

He never let get this as far as the UN. Still. I'm sure the Syrians being gassed will understand.


What a wilful misrepresentation of what happened in Parliament last week, but hardly surprising.

The government did not ask the Commons to support a UN resolution. They wanted authorisation for military strikes without UN authorisation if necessary. Thus, a completely different to the situation in Libya.

Slag of Miliband all you like if it makes you feel better but it is pointless. It isn't his fault the government lost the vote. The Coalition has a majority of 70 plus over all other parties, not just Labour, but they couldn't even muster enough support on their own benches for what they were proposing, let alone the Opposition.

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#267 PC

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:56 PM

I was leaning to the side of keeping well out of Syria, then I saw the BBC footage of the napalm/thermite bombing of a school. My thinking is how that we should drop a similar device on Assad and see how he likes it.
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#268 archibald

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:00 PM

What a wilful misrepresentation of what happened in Parliament last week, but hardly surprising.

The government did not ask the Commons to support a UN resolution. They wanted authorisation for military strikes without UN authorisation if necessary. Thus, a completely different to the situation in Libya.

Slag of Miliband all you like if it makes you feel better but it is pointless. It isn't his fault the government lost the vote. The Coalition has a majority of 70 plus over all other parties, not just Labour, but they couldn't even muster enough support on their own benches for what they were proposing, let alone the Opposition.

 

Indeed, as I pointed out days ago.

 

Unless Labour have managed to fit in a few bye-elections overnight then they've still no majority, which means the real kick in the ###### came from within the Tory ranks or the Lib Dems.

 

Do bombs dropped with a UN resolution cause less damage? He played politics over this, and in the short term it worked.

 

What does seem odd is their was no government vote on military action until after the first bombs were dropped, I'm surprised Ed allowed this to happen. Why was this?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-12821505

 

http://www.newstates...iliband-support

 

Why's it "hardly surprising"?


Edited by archibald, 31 August 2013 - 07:38 PM.


#269 my missus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:56 PM

http://www.youtube.c...xo6VZQ5cyrgffhQ
 
these lyrics are pretty apt.


Edited by my missus, 31 August 2013 - 10:09 PM.

I look around
I search the skies
I shade my eyes
So nearly blind
And I see signs of half remembered days
I hear bells that chime in strange familiar ways
I recognise...
The hope you kindle in your eyes


#270 Johnoco

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:12 PM

I was leaning to the side of keeping well out of Syria, then I saw the BBC footage of the napalm/thermite bombing of a school. My thinking is how that we should drop a similar device on Assad and see how he likes it.

I saw that footage but it didn't show you who actually did it. Probably did it, is not good enough.

#271 Methven Hornet

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:03 AM

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after war began

If true it puts Cameron's outrage into a bit of context.


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#272 archibald

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:08 AM

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after war began

If true it puts Cameron's outrage into a bit of context.

I'm almost certain it's true. The chemicals sold, they only have one use? They can't be synthesised to make other stuff?



#273 archibald

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:17 AM

Christ, these chemicals were probably transported by road, using lorries filled with diesel, maybe this diesel came from the North Sea.



#274 JohnM

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

Anyone know why the 30 or so (quite right wing) Con. MPs voted against. Perhaps they saw it asap chance to oust Cameron?

#275 archibald

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

Marginal seats?



#276 walter sobchak

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

Anyone know why the 30 or so (quite right wing) Con. MPs voted against. Perhaps they saw it asap chance to oust Cameron?


Maybe I'm being naive but I would hope they put their country before their party, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did see it as a chance to oust Cameron.

#277 ckn

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

Anyone know why the 30 or so (quite right wing) Con. MPs voted against. Perhaps they saw it asap chance to oust Cameron?

There were also quite a large number of abstentions from the Tory MPs.

 

You have the likes of Adam Afriyie who thinks he just needs to get Cameron out to get anointed as Prime Minister with all of Parliament prostrating themselves at his feet.  A bit of a Heseltine complex...

 

You have the likes of Tim Yeo who asks if there are foxes or anything to do with his "consultancies" involved, if not then he's not voting.

 

You have two ministers who conveniently "didn't hear" the division bell despite being right on a busy corridor.  Maybe their watches stopped in the 10 minutes after they voted against Labour's amendment and the time it took for them to get the next vote set up.

 

You have eight other ministers who were "absent", a couple of them actually had genuine reasons.

 

You have some who are in such narrow majority seats that they'll do anything to avoid an unpopular vote.  They'd quite happily vote to be publicly flogged if it secured them an extra vote or two.

 

Then finally you have a few principled people who voted based on their principles, morals and ideals.   Good for them.


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#278 JohnM

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:28 PM

Maybe I'm being naive but I would hope they put their country before their party, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did see it as a chance to oust Cameron.

 

 

 I would hope they put their country before their party,

 

quite so but we are talking about MPs here, not always the most honourable of honourable members....of any party.

 

I'd like to see the voting records of those Conservatives, though, on other issues where they may not have shared Cameron' vision. 



#279 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

Dorries abstained.  Definitely not a marginal seat, though she isn't Cameron's biggest fan either.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#280 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:27 AM

Anyone know why the 30 or so (quite right wing) Con. MPs voted against. Perhaps they saw it asap chance to oust Cameron?

 

I think you've said it in brackets. The vote loss was to do with the internal politics going on in the Conservative Party at the moment.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."




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