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Do we expect too much


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#1 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:02 PM

Like most people, I was disappointed with Saturday's Challenge Cup Final.

The bad weather made it hard for both teams, and there were relatively few memorable highlights.

Click here to view the article

#2 Dave T

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:09 PM

Good article. I agree about the ratio of good games - in my opinion, even the poor games of RL have plenty of decent stuff in them. The other day was frustrating and too stop-start but there were plenty of big hits, some nice breaks and plenty of tension.

 

Everything is so extreme in Rugby League world (not your magazine!) - a bad game means the game is dying in many people's heads!



#3 Futtocks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:20 PM

If Hull's defence hadn't been so strong, and Wigan had been able to properly unleash their strike players and win by more tries, fans on here would be moaning about blowout scores. Same old story.


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#4 nathanwood7

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:24 PM

Very good points. Many people are very passionate about rugby league and about some of the perceived injustices to the game over the last 100 years which have held the game back from being where they believe it deserves to be. This has made some people (myself probably included if I'm being honest) very defensive about the sport with a feeling that the game is on trial every week as it tries to prove itself, particularly on a big occasion such as this. If it fails to do so, by delivering an awful game, then there is a real sense of crushing disappointment at missing an opportunity.



#5 TaxiEgg

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:32 PM

Bad day at the office ,poor playing conditions ( was the weather really that bad ? )

We expect high standards because this is our flagship competition , if you compare the game on Saturday with any played over the week end in Oz then we really do have to question our quality ?

Or are we not giving credit to the level of defence on show ,Hull spilled a lot of possession but was that not down to the in your face defence from Wigan and in the same token how well did Hull defend ?

For me our game is getting stale because we do not have the strength of depth in quality of attacking players with the craft and guile to open tight defences .

How many of our Home grown halfs would cut the mustard in oz as apposed to the other way ?

Yes Saturdays game was a big disappointment but so are most of our super league games ,the game is losing its WOW factor over here our family prefer watching the Oz game and we talk more about the skills on show in OZ games compared to ours .

#6 Dave T

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

This may be a flagship comp in terms of big ground and large crowd, but due to the knockout format you never really get the best teams playing against each other.

 

This was 3rd v 7th.



#7 Ant

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

You know what
If the Cup Final had been played between two NRL teams all the talk would be of the superhuman defence of both teams and their willingness to attack in all areas of the field despite the pressure put on them

Instead it's "well didn't they knock on a lot"

Hull played right up to the advantage line and it didn't work for them, Wigan took a slightly more conservative approach and where limited to two tries, one a bit of luck and the other the individual brilliance of Tomkins.

Hull blew chance after chance - and had what could have been one of the great Wembley tries snuffed out by what might be the best bit of defensive play I've seen at Wembley from Charnley - the front on camera view of that is a joy to behold no matter what sport you follow.

Maybe if Hull had been a bit more reserved they'd have scored something, if Charnley hadn't bust a gut to get back the score might have been very different

It wasn't the best game ever, but it had moments of sheer brilliance in it, and so lets view it in that lense instead of saying it was mediocre - which it certainly wast.

#8 gingerjon

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:59 PM

You know what
If the Cup Final had been played between two NRL teams all the talk would be of the superhuman defence of both teams and their willingness to attack in all areas of the field despite the pressure put on them

Instead it's "well didn't they knock on a lot"

Hull played right up to the advantage line and it didn't work for them, Wigan took a slightly more conservative approach and where limited to two tries, one a bit of luck and the other the individual brilliance of Tomkins.

Hull blew chance after chance - and had what could have been one of the great Wembley tries snuffed out by what might be the best bit of defensive play I've seen at Wembley from Charnley - the front on camera view of that is a joy to behold no matter what sport you follow.

Maybe if Hull had been a bit more reserved they'd have scored something, if Charnley hadn't bust a gut to get back the score might have been very different

It wasn't the best game ever, but it had moments of sheer brilliance in it, and so lets view it in that lense instead of saying it was mediocre - which it certainly wast.

 

Pretty much: this.

 

Charnley doesn't seem to be getting the credit he deserves for running down that break & killing the attack.  All in one move.  After chasing the length of the pitch.


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#9 Futtocks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:13 PM

Pretty much: this.

 

Charnley doesn't seem to be getting the credit he deserves for running down that break & killing the attack.  All in one move.  After chasing the length of the pitch.

It was a remarkably cool-headed choice of action, seeing as it was done while running at at top speed. Shaul's run was superbly balanced and incisive, and for a moment I really thought he'd got clean away.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#10 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:16 PM

Very good points. Many people are very passionate about rugby league and about some of the perceived injustices to the game over the last 100 years which have held the game back from being where they believe it deserves to be. This has made some people (myself probably included if I'm being honest) very defensive about the sport with a feeling that the game is on trial every week as it tries to prove itself, particularly on a big occasion such as this. If it fails to do so, by delivering an awful game, then there is a real sense of crushing disappointment at missing an opportunity.

 

I actually commented on this to Martyn after a very good game of RL. As many others do regularly, he used the game to say that it was proof that Rugby League is the greatest game. It's two sides of the same coin to me. 

 

I replied to him then that in my opinion this sort of comment is a symptom of the huge insecurity within RL that we have about our sport. There is so much negativity around the game that opportunities like a fantastic match are jumped on almost as a reminder why we follow the game at all. I completely agree that we are very defensive also and this leads to huge over-reactions to the littlest of things, including a poor game. That same insecurity manifests itself in some people as a defensive over-reaction, such as trying to distance themselves from the game. Proclaiming the death of the sport is almost an attempt to soften the blow if the game did go on and die, then at least they could claim that they had seen it coming and were of greater intelligence than those who didn't. It's like jumping off a sinking ship and they think they are the first to see it coming. This is evidenced by the numbers that will only speak on negative threads, I don't believe they hate RL, I think it is a coping mechanism with the disappointment that they have witnessed. 

 

It has happened for 108 years and continues to today, god forbid if these forums had been around in the early 1970's. 

 

As for entertainment I'd say at least 5/10 are good games, there are too many games where the result is a foregone conclusion for it to be higher than this. It is however higher than Football IMO where I rarely catch a good game. I envy how their fans rarely question the sport itself and would criticise the teams' lack of skill way before the sport. 

 

When Widnes played Castleford there was a great deal of negativity around the ground and this increased after we lost with many saying they'd had enough and that they wouldn't be renewing next year etc etc. However, from an entertainment POV this is ludicrous. Our first 6 games included excellent defeats of Hull and Wire, a 12-man comeback against Bradford (which was a cracker), close defeats to Wakey and Saints and our biggest ever SL win. Since then, we have beaten London and suffered very narrow defeats against Cas, Catalans and Wigan. Only the Leeds and Huddersfield games were poor games as we were out of them by half-time, so all in all 2/12 games have been anything like not entertaining. 

 

I'd love to see what other sports could say that. 


Edited by Maximus Decimus, 27 August 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#11 brooza

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

We expect high standards because this is our flagship competition , if you compare the game on Saturday with any played over the week end in Oz then we really do have to question our quality ?

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#12 Father Ted

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

Living on Merseyside, the Wirral, I talk to soccer fans of Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere.
Ask any Everton or Tranmere fan "how was the game" and most of the time the answer is "rubbish".
Liverpool fans are less critical but very often they are not best pleased with their team's performances. Reds fans are in dread of the day Gerrard finishes.

I do think that watching Wigan regularly I see far more games of a better quality than the soccer fans who watch regularly. We see plenty skill and plenty scores in a game that is played by honest players.
Soccer rarely has plenty goals, last night's 0-0 being an example. There is plenty skill on show in soccer but also plenty cheating which I simply can't stand!

The one thing that will always keep me watching RL and keep me away from soccer is the spitting hatred from the sections of the crowds. They are angry, volatile, foul mouthed and abusive. No wonder they don't allow alchol be seved in sections of the grounds.

At Wembley we mixed with HullFC fans in the pubs, on the trains to the game and around the stadium. I didn't see any trouble and I doubt there was any.
The mixing of crowds is excellent yet we forget that only happens because the Metropolitan Police allow it. Our good reputation precedes us and this is something I'm proud of.

I believe I follow the best sport in the UK for all the reasons above.
The game, its players and us fans who overall I think are great no matter from which club.

#13 Futtocks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

Living on Merseyside, the Wirral, I talk to soccer fans of Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere.
Ask any Everton or Tranmere fan "how was the game" and most of the time the answer is "rubbish".
Liverpool fans are less critical but very often they are not best pleased with their team's performances. Reds fans are in dread of the day Gerrard finishes.

I think Liverpool fans aren't so much critical of their players as perennially-disappointed early season optimists.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#14 Middleman

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

I don't link a high scoring fixture , and the CC final that was littered with basic errors can be compared .

Melbourne are GF & WCC champs and can turn in that sort of performance against most NRL teams but especially the Eels , who are in dissaray as a team defensively

 

The Final was ' frustrating ' rather than terrible. the wet conditions added to the errors with so many promising passages of possession petering out  , and it seemed Hull collectively choked when they were on the Wigan 20.

Even then had Jamie Shaul's break ended in a try it might well have been the kick start Hull  needed to boost their confidence to end the game on a bit of a high.

 

There has been lots of comment about the Rhino Match ball behaving like a bar of soap in the wet , any truth in the comment the special run of Tetley sponsored Rhino Match balls was even worse?   



#15 Futtocks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:13 PM

The Year 2040. Football has imploded financially and Rugby Union has collapsed too, deserted by supporters in droves, following an exposé of their decades of dirty tricks. The massively-rich RFL now owns the 150,000-seat 'New Wembley', which is sold out for the final of a World Cup, contested at the highest level by more teams than ever before.

Thrilling handling moves, bone-jarring tackles, tries that have billions of viewers across the world screaming with excitement and at the end, England raise the grand old trophy.

An exhilarated BBC journalist is sent to get vox-pops from the crowd as it heads away from the stadium.

Rugby League fan: "I don't know where they bought those pies; expensive and rubbish. Beer's nothing to write home about either...

And I'll never clap a team that includes <insert player's name>, 'cause he got away with a forward pass in a match eight years ago against us. Which we won by 40 points...

And my club isn't doing well at the moment, which is due to a conspiracy by the 'powers that be'...

And what's with all these foreigners watching Rugby League? It's not for them, they'll never be proper fans etc. etc...

Some folk can't handle the truth, but I'm just telling it like it is etc. etc. grumble grumble..."


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#16 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:21 PM

The Year 2040. Football has imploded financially and Rugby Union has collapsed too, deserted by supporters in droves, following an exposé of their decades of dirty tricks. The massively-rich RFL now owns the 150,000-seat 'New Wembley', which is sold out for the final of a World Cup, contested at the highest level by more teams than ever before.

Thrilling handling moves, bone-jarring tackles, tries that have billions of viewers across the world screaming with excitement and at the end, England raise the grand old trophy.

An exhilarated BBC journalist is sent to get vox-pops from the crowd as it heads away from the stadium.

Rugby League fan: "I don't know where they bought those pies; expensive and rubbish. Beer's nothing to write home about either...

And I'll never clap a team that includes <insert player's name>, 'cause he got away with a forward pass in a match eight years ago against us. Which we won by 40 points...

And my club isn't doing well at the moment, which is due to a conspiracy by the 'powers that be'...

And what's with all these foreigners watching Rugby League? It's not for them, they'll never be proper fans etc. etc...

Some folk can't handle the truth, but I'm just telling it like it is etc. etc. grumble grumble..."

 

These modern players couldn't lace Richie Mathers' boots. 



#17 Futtocks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:27 PM



These modern players couldn't lace Richie Mathers' boots. 

Aye, where are the flair players like Doc Murray and Stuart Evans, eh?


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#18 Steve May

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

Pretty much: this.

 

Charnley doesn't seem to be getting the credit he deserves for running down that break & killing the attack. 

 

Probably because it should have been a knock on against him.  

 

 

Personally, I really enjoyed the match.  I agree with Ant's analysis of it.   Those conditions were shocking, and Wigan played the better game to handle them.


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#19 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:32 PM

Probably because it should have been a knock on against him.  

 

 

Personally, I really enjoyed the match.  I agree with Ant's analysis of it.   Those conditions were shocking, and Wigan played the better game to handle them.

 

The game was a poor game by RL standards and Hull are getting a lot of flack for a bad performance. However, it was only a bad attacking performance, Wigan were so dominant that with many other teams it would have been maybe 30 or 40 nil for their dominance. At least there was some doubt about the result up until the 70th minute or so. 

 

I think the sheer number of knock ons ruined the spectacle for many, especially as they were hardly forced by good play. I'm mixed about it, I think the ball is to blame but as my previous stats showed, the actual number of errors hasn't increased this year. 



#20 Griff9of13

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:36 PM

Probably because it should have been a knock on against him.  

 

 

Personally, I really enjoyed the match.  I agree with Ant's analysis of it.   Those conditions were shocking, and Wigan played the better game to handle them.

 

Pretty much how I summed it up on Saturday. I think Shaun Wane got his tactics right, especially for the conditions and when you recall how Hulls excellent defence seemed to frustrate Warrington into over expansive play and unforced errors in the semi final. 


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