Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Do we expect too much


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#41 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,094 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:44 PM

You jammy git Martin. I had to sit through almost all of Man U v Chelsea and believe me the second forty five was better than the first. For all you people making comments about Charnley chasing down Shaul, it was a knock on, head and feed to Hull.

I need to watch that again,  both players were moving at speed if Charnley hits the ball towards his own line and they both overrun it, even before it hits the ground, then, it isn't a knock on.

 

A knock on is judged differently than a forward past.

 



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#42 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,812 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:57 PM

I watched it with a few non-RL fans in a pub in Edinburgh and despite acknowledging that the game wasn't a classic, nobody thought the game was dying, nobody questioned the empty seats - they just watched it for what it was - a big game of RL.

 

Most people in the country are football fans, they are more than used to watching games that disappoint.



#43 bobbruce

bobbruce
  • Coach
  • 6,026 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

erm, O'Loughlin was.

O'Loughlin was ahead of Charnley, Charnley touched it (knocked it down) and O'Loughlin picked it up ahead of Charnley.

A clear offside, assuming that Charnley touched it, which is clearly the case.


It's impossible to say whether its a knock on or not as he could of hit the ball into Shaul. I'm certain oloughlin isn't offside though as the ball from the initial contact goes back towards the Wigan line so even if oloughlin comes from an offside position he has to put himself onside to pick the ball up

#44 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,812 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:36 PM

It's impossible to say whether its a knock on or not as he could of hit the ball into Shaul. I'm certain oloughlin isn't offside though as the ball from the initial contact goes back towards the Wigan line so even if oloughlin comes from an offside position he has to put himself onside to pick the ball up

ah... I could be wrong, but I thought he could only be played onside by Charnley going in front of him.

 

My understanding is that Charnley touched it and O'Loughlin was in an offside position - he was never played onside as he stayed ahead of Charnley at all times. Like I say, I could easily be wrong on this one!



#45 bobbruce

bobbruce
  • Coach
  • 6,026 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

ah... I could be wrong, but I thought he could only be played onside by Charnley going in front of him.

My understanding is that Charnley touched it and O'Loughlin was in an offside position - he was never played onside as he stayed ahead of Charnley at all times. Like I say, I could easily be wrong on this one!


That's off a kick but a kick will be going forward so if your in front you need the kicker to play you onside. This ball was touched so if the point where oloughlin picks the ball up is behind where charnley touches its ok. You can't be offside picking a ball up that goes backwards.

#46 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,812 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:57 PM

That's off a kick but a kick will be going forward so if your in front you need the kicker to play you onside. This ball was touched so if the point where oloughlin picks the ball up is behind where charnley touches its ok. You can't be offside picking a ball up that goes backwards.

When off side 1. A player is off side except when he is in his own ingoal if the ball touches, is touched, held or kicked, by one of his own team behind him.

 

It then goes on to say, you are placed onside if:

 

(e) he retires behind the point where the ball was last touched by one of his own team.

 

So yes, it would appear it was fine, apologies!


Edited by Dave T, 27 August 2013 - 08:59 PM.


#47 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,393 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:19 AM

Bad day at the office ,poor playing conditions ( was the weather really that bad ? )

We expect high standards because this is our flagship competition , if you compare the game on Saturday with any played over the week end in Oz then we really do have to question our quality ?

Or are we not giving credit to the level of defence on show ,Hull spilled a lot of possession but was that not down to the in your face defence from Wigan and in the same token how well did Hull defend ?

For me our game is getting stale because we do not have the strength of depth in quality of attacking players with the craft and guile to open tight defences .

How many of our Home grown halfs would cut the mustard in oz as apposed to the other way ?

Yes Saturdays game was a big disappointment but so are most of our super league games ,the game is losing its WOW factor over here our family prefer watching the Oz game and we talk more about the skills on show in OZ games compared to ours .

 

The principal halfback who couldn't remotely get it right on Saturday was an Australian.



#48 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:10 AM

The principal halfback who couldn't remotely get it right on Saturday was an Australian.

The British game brought him down to our level ;)

rldfsignature.jpg


#49 Mumby Magic

Mumby Magic
  • Coach
  • 3,160 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:14 AM

...............and back to the OP?


Lilly, Jacob and Isaac, what my life is about. Although our route through life is not how it should be, I am a blessed man.


#50 Steve May

Steve May
  • Coach
  • 10,111 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:05 AM

That's off a kick but a kick will be going forward so if your in front you need the kicker to play you onside. This ball was touched so if the point where oloughlin picks the ball up is behind where charnley touches its ok. You can't be offside picking a ball up that goes backwards.

 

I think people are getting confused about which direction Wigan are attacking.  When Charnley knocks the ball out of Shaul's hands it travels forwards towards the Hull line.   It's a Wigan player knocking the ball forwards, which is a knock on.   And O'Loughlin is ahead of Charnley not behind him, which makes him offside IMO.  

 

Still great play from Charnley and he saved a certain try.

 

 

For a while now the referees have been calling a knock on against the defending side if the ball is knocked out of the attacking players hands.  I think it's a daft ruling as it encourages loose carrying of the ball, but it's what's been happening.


That's me.  I'm done.


#51 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

I think people are getting confused about which direction Wigan are attacking.  When Charnley knocks the ball out of Shaul's hands it travels forwards towards the Hull line.   It's a Wigan player knocking the ball forwards, which is a knock on.   And O'Loughlin is ahead of Charnley not behind him, which makes him offside IMO.  
 
Still great play from Charnley and he saved a certain try.
 
 

At last, someone who understood my point.

rldfsignature.jpg


#52 bobbruce

bobbruce
  • Coach
  • 6,026 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:06 PM

I think people are getting confused about which direction Wigan are attacking. When Charnley knocks the ball out of Shaul's hands it travels forwards towards the Hull line. It's a Wigan player knocking the ball forwards, which is a knock on. And O'Loughlin is ahead of Charnley not behind him, which makes him offside.

As I say you couldn't be certain on the knock on because he could hit the ball into Shaul but watch the video again the point at which oloughlin picks the ball up is closer to the Wigan line than where charnley touches it.

Also to add its completely irrelevant where charnley ends up all that matters is where he touched the ball. If the ball goes forward from that point (towards the hull line) oloughlin offside. If as I think it does the ball goes backwards (towards the Wigan line) then he's onside.

Edited by bobbruce, 28 August 2013 - 12:11 PM.


#53 Just Browny

Just Browny
  • Coach
  • 11,737 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

Back to the original question, and I'd say definitively yes - we do expect too much.

I've mentioned before that I've had one or two minor successes in getting people to watch the game out here, people without any inkling of RL's history and without any of the inbuilt prejudices Brits may have.

I had a Germany guy round to watch Saturday's game, and it was the first RL match he'd ever seen. In no particular order, his comments were.

- The big hits and speed of the game were impressive
- Hull looked they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time
- It was an exciting contest all the way through
- That Tomkins is skilful
- There were a lot of empty spaces for a final
- It would good to attend a game

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#54 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:35 PM

I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

rldfsignature.jpg


#55 Steve May

Steve May
  • Coach
  • 10,111 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

As I say you couldn't be certain on the knock on because he could hit the ball into Shaul but watch the video again the point at which oloughlin picks the ball up is closer to the Wigan line than where charnley touches it.
 

 

If Charnley knocks it forwards (relative to his own line, not him), then it's a knock on if it hits Shaul.   I think it possibly does.

 

I've looked at the video frame by frame now (boring afternoon in the office) and I think O'Loughlin is clearly nearer the Hull line when Charnley knocks on.  Then, as he loops back round, he runs on past the point where Charnley hit it therefore playing himself onside.

 

It's a scrum to Hull I think.


That's me.  I'm done.


#56 Steve May

Steve May
  • Coach
  • 10,111 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:59 PM

I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

 

 

He did very little for 79 minutes and fifty seconds out of the 80.  In the other ten seconds he scored a cracker of a try.

 

I don't think the weather was very helpful to players with his style.


That's me.  I'm done.


#57 Rascal Bongo Stork

Rascal Bongo Stork
  • Coach
  • 451 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:03 PM

Living on Merseyside, the Wirral, I talk to soccer fans of Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere.
Ask any Everton or Tranmere fan "how was the game" and most of the time the answer is "rubbish".
Liverpool fans are less critical but very often they are not best pleased with their team's performances. Reds fans are in dread of the day Gerrard finishes.

I do think that watching Wigan regularly I see far more games of a better quality than the soccer fans who watch regularly. We see plenty skill and plenty scores in a game that is played by honest players.
Soccer rarely has plenty goals, last night's 0-0 being an example. There is plenty skill on show in soccer but also plenty cheating which I simply can't stand!

The one thing that will always keep me watching RL and keep me away from soccer is the spitting hatred from the sections of the crowds. They are angry, volatile, foul mouthed and abusive. No wonder they don't allow alchol be seved in sections of the grounds.

At Wembley we mixed with HullFC fans in the pubs, on the trains to the game and around the stadium. I didn't see any trouble and I doubt there was any.
The mixing of crowds is excellent yet we forget that only happens because the Metropolitan Police allow it. Our good reputation precedes us and this is something I'm proud of.

I believe I follow the best sport in the UK for all the reasons above.
The game, its players and us fans who overall I think are great no matter from which club.

 

there was a bit of trouble. There was a fairly sustained set to (maybe less than a couple of minutes but it seemed longer) towards the end of the game between two sets of Hull fans in the top tier of the stand opposite the tunnel. One faction had black and white face paint on and were wearing black and white chequered hats - quite incongrous to see them then laying in the punches. 

I quite often see people getting punched at major RL events so never feel entirely comfortable with the 'no trouble here' line. Saw a bloke threatening another with extreme violence at last years CC Final - the man on the end of the abuse was with his wife and 4 kids, all of whom were clearly petrified. Saw a man floored with one punch outside OT before last years GF. Was sat near 1x Hull fan and 1x Hull KR fan punching each other at Magic last year. Was directly behind two Wigan fans who went at it big style in the beer queue at their SF in Huddersfield last year.  Maybe it's just me and I'm causing all this stuff ;-)

Obviously the vast vast majority are law abiding folk and can go to a game without whacking someone or behaving like a tool, far more than football but behind that 'other' code in my opinon



#58 brooza

brooza
  • Moderator
  • 4,360 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

You say that as someone who watches the game week in week out. To someone who doesn't, he will look great. Especially as his wonder try happened right at the end, that's what they'll remember.


St Albans Centurions 1st Team Manager. Former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

Moderator of the International board

#59 brooza

brooza
  • Moderator
  • 4,360 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:08 PM

there was a bit of trouble. There was a fairly sustained set to (maybe less than a couple of minutes but it seemed longer) towards the end of the game between two sets of Hull fans in the top tier of the stand opposite the tunnel. One faction had black and white face paint on and were wearing black and white chequered hats - quite incongrous to see them then laying in the punches. 

I quite often see people getting punched at major RL events so never feel entirely comfortable with the 'no trouble here' line. Saw a bloke threatening another with extreme violence at last years CC Final - the man on the end of the abuse was with his wife and 4 kids, all of whom were clearly petrified. Saw a man floored with one punch outside OT before last years GF. Was sat near 1x Hull fan and 1x Hull KR fan punching each other at Magic last year. Was directly behind two Wigan fans who went at it big style in the beer queue at their SF in Huddersfield last year.  Maybe it's just me and I'm causing all this stuff ;-)

Obviously the vast vast majority are law abiding folk and can go to a game without whacking someone or behaving like a tool, far more than football but behind that 'other' code in my opinon

I've never seen it personally, but I've been aware of "isolated incidents". I tent to be around the middle, never sat in one of the ends because I tend to get my tickets early.

 

The way I see it, I've been to Wembley 6 times now, and the 1 football match I went to is the only time someone has been killed. But then, that's statistics for you...


St Albans Centurions 1st Team Manager. Former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

Moderator of the International board

#60 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,202 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:13 PM

Back to the original question, and I'd say definitively yes - we do expect too much.
I've mentioned before that I've had one or two minor successes in getting people to watch the game out here, people without any inkling of RL's history and without any of the inbuilt prejudices Brits may have.
I had a Germany guy round to watch Saturday's game, and it was the first RL match he'd ever seen. In no particular order, his comments were.
- The big hits and speed of the game were impressive
- Hull looked they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time
- It was an exciting contest all the way through
- That Tomkins is skilful
- There were a lot of empty spaces for a final
- It would good to attend a game


The Tomkins comment must have hurt!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users