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Summer/Winter debate


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#21 RLRatings

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:26 PM

It seems to me that the game's got to work through these issues. Winter will work best for some, summer for others. Anecdotally, summer is a better way for clubs in less-established areas to get more players through the doors.

 

To this end, we need cooperation between all bodies, the ability to play at NCL standard all year round, and competition scheduling that is sympathetic to both seasons, including cross-season competitions.

 

Go to it, people.


www.rugbyleagueratings.com - proving that Featherstone were bound to beat Cas, since 2011.

#22 Gonch

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:46 PM

Marauder, the addition of the Barrow clubs
has strengthened the comp after losing kells when they joined the NCL but my opinion is the standard has dropped especially after the summer hols started and lack of commitment as well. We have never started the same 17 this year and we are relying on many players below the age of 20 and a few of the now defunct BRR players, a few week ago several games were cancelled due to a lack of referees!

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."


#23 BARRETT

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:30 PM

I am led to believe that ten NCL clubs have expressed concern about being unable to raise full squads due to un availability of players that is a worrying situation .

 Ten NCL Clubs??  Don't think so Taxi.......   There must be more than ten !!



#24 TaxiEgg

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:33 PM

I was told it was ten who have contacted the administrator others may be struggling but not raising the issue .

#25 ckn

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:58 PM

The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league.  The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

 

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#26 Pottsy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:24 PM

The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league. The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.


The truth is (and I'm happy to be castigated for this view) some people enjoy the status of being on a committee, along with the small time politics that accompanies it, more than they enjoy the game.
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#27 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:13 PM

The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league.  The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

 

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.

Agree 100%.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#28 nec

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:58 PM

The truth is (and I'm happy to be castigated for this view) some people enjoy the status of being on a committee, along with the small time politics that accompanies it, more than they enjoy the game.

That is indeed the issue, the game needs to be run by a unified governing body (although I would like that governing body to be more like the RFL of Richard Lewis than the current model). It needs a playing season followed by the vast majority of the sport so that players and spectators know when the playing season is. None of this will happen due to the actions of people more interested in the politics of the sport and their own club's fortunes than they are about increasing profile, participation or growth. We seem to have a group of blazeaucrats that all 'thought summer rugby was wrong' but 'went into it whole-heartedly and found it didn't work'. Many of our clubs are deeply unwelcoming to people outside their usual playing base, this is why losing players that can't play in summer is not seen as an opportunity to bring new players through.

To me the community game must be about participation above all else. If standards dip slightly when new players get blooded is that a real problem?
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#29 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:12 PM

From a coaching perspective I have had to "blood" as you term it at least 17 players this season whom were/are not ready for the standard tgat our first team are currently playing.
This is mainly due to losing no fewer than 12 players whom are unable to commit to the requirements of summer rugby mainly due to work.
We have as a club reacted to this by bringing through players from last seasons under 18s and our second team but to be quite honest these lads are just not ready for this step up especially when you have to put so many of them into the first team all in one go.

I was not in favour of a switch to summer but decided to stay involved purely and simply because I enjoy the game however, this enjoyment is slowly but surely being eroded as rather than coaching I know find myself just having to get 17 players together for match days especially during holiday periods etc etc.

Summer rugby is a fantastic concept in theory but in practice its much more difficult to make work than first envisaged and in my opinion the traditional season (winter) was far easier as a coach.

I think again in my humble opinion summer could work with some adjustments (as I have listed elswhere) and I urge the NCL and other summer league committees to please take on board the views of those of us "at the coal face" or risk losing more players coaches and volunteers.

#30 Impartial Observer

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

Would the players who cannot commit to playing in the summer due to work not have the same problem in winter?

#31 Pottsy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:24 PM

Would the players who cannot commit to playing in the summer due to work not have the same problem in winter?

To be 100% honest as someone who is largely on the fence here but has a long association with the summer game, as a player, administrator and coach, I have to say that summer does throw up more 'variables' in terms of player availability.

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to how much of a game changer this is as I do actually think that younger lads are generally far less stoic and committed than they were 10-15 years ago.

Edited by Pottsy, 29 August 2013 - 10:09 PM.


#32 nec

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:26 PM

From a coaching perspective I have had to "blood" as you term it at least 17 players this season whom were/are not ready for the standard tgat our first team are currently playing.
This is mainly due to losing no fewer than 12 players whom are unable to commit to the requirements of summer rugby mainly due to work.
We have as a club reacted to this by bringing through players from last seasons under 18s and our second team but to be quite honest these lads are just not ready for this step up especially when you have to put so many of them into the first team all in one go.

I was not in favour of a switch to summer but decided to stay involved purely and simply because I enjoy the game however, this enjoyment is slowly but surely being eroded as rather than coaching I know find myself just having to get 17 players together for match days especially during holiday periods etc etc.

Summer rugby is a fantastic concept in theory but in practice its much more difficult to make work than first envisaged and in my opinion the traditional season (winter) was far easier as a coach.

I think again in my humble opinion summer could work with some adjustments (as I have listed elswhere) and I urge the NCL and other summer league committees to please take on board the views of those of us "at the coal face" or risk losing more players coaches and volunteers.

Are other teams not introducing new inexperienced lads too? If so why are your newcomers finding the transition so tough?
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#33 TaxiEgg

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:47 PM

The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league.  The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

 

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.

 

The fragmentation has been manufactured by the governing body .



#34 ckn

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:57 PM

The fragmentation has been manufactured by the governing body .

I don't disagree but some have seized that with glee in the community game.

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#35 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

Most if not all of the lads we have lost are construction workers and lighter nights = longer working days and having to work eeekends.

Its not too bad blooding a few younger and or second team players but once you start losing your key players (6, 7, 13 1 ) for example or you lose 3 or 4 experienced forwards your performances will naturally suffer.

I do believe that most teams have had to contend with this matter too and thats why the results go haywire as we have seen.
I dont recall having the same problem as a coach and a player during the winter campaigns.

If we want the amatuer open age game to continue and develop then we must be open to a variety potential solutions - sadly our administrators dont seem to be listening or dont want to comment either!

#36 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:56 PM

Are other teams not introducing new inexperienced lads too? If so why are your newcomers finding the transition so tough?



#37 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:58 PM

Because we have to introduce too many before they are up to the standard!

#38 Gonch

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:02 AM

Just to add a little weight to the thread one of our oldest clubs in the Cumbria men's league has left the league before the season end

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."


#39 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:13 AM

Just to add a little weight to the thread one of our oldest clubs in the Cumbria men's league has left the league before the season end

 

Which club is that Chris, I like many others thought that everything was rosy up in your neck of the woods.



#40 sbull

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:17 AM

You could argue that summer rugby is working because games are getting played, just not as many and not to the same standard as winter for all the reasons documented
and it would take an extremely well trained politician to try and convince anybody any different,

Does anybody remember why we moved in the first place, I'm sure I was told for better playing standard, well hasn't that back fired.