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The price of a cyclist's life: 240 hours unpaid work


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141 replies to this topic

#81 Griff

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:40 AM

The location is fine, it's the bad drivers that make it dangerous. The solution to this problem is to educate drivers, not stop cyclists from using the roads.

 

Or we could educate cyclists.  Make them pass a test or summat.


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#82 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:52 AM

Or we could educate cyclists.  Make them pass a test or summat.

 

We've established in this situation that the cyclists are the ones following the rules of the road correctly.


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#83 Severus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:53 AM

Or we could educate cyclists.  Make them pass a test or summat.


Ideally I would like to see that, but it would be very difficult to enforce and expensive to manage. CTC and British Cycling along with the Sky Rides already do quite a bit of work educating cyclists in how to ride legally and safely on the roads, but I guess the type of cyclist they want to target aren't the sort to seek those things out.
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#84 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

Ideally I would like to see that, but it would be very difficult to enforce and expensive to manage. CTC and British Cycling along with the Sky Rides already do quite a bit of work educating cyclists in how to ride legally and safely on the roads, but I guess the type of cyclist they want to target aren't the sort to seek those things out.

 

It would be a bit ridiculous.  Most people have experience of cycling on the roads long before they even drive a car.  At what point should they take a test?

 

We did cycling proficiency in school but, from memory, it was a single morning and taught us things that are now well out of date.


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#85 Johnoco

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:39 AM

Put it this way, in theory, I should be able to go on the motorway now, get into the fast lane and drive to London at 70mph (conditions permitting)

 

I would be following the law on this and technically would be in the right. But what would happen in reality is that many cars would form behind me banging their horns and a large queue would ensue - which is dangerous, rightly or wrongly. What use is being on the right side of the law if someone ploughs into your rear at high speed? Not much. So I move over and let people pass (hypocrite alert there on motorway driving!)

 

Ditto for cyclists that might be following the law but it is in their own interest to ensure they are not riding side by side on a dual carriageway or some such scenario. It really is life or death and not worth arguing with a speeding car over.


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#86 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:42 AM

Put it this way, in theory, I should be able to go on the motorway now, get into the fast lane and drive to London at 70mph (conditions permitting)

 

I would be following the law on this and technically would be in the right. But what would happen in reality is that many cars would form behind me banging their horns and a large queue would ensue - which is dangerous, rightly or wrongly. What use is being on the right side of the law if someone ploughs into your rear at high speed? Not much. So I move over and let people pass (hypocrite alert there on motorway driving!)

 

Ditto for cyclists that might be following the law but it is in their own interest to ensure they are not riding side by side on a dual carriageway or some such scenario. It really is life or death and not worth arguing with a speeding car over.

 

Sev made the point about riding two abreast before and he is right.  It is a lot, lot safer for everyone than slinking over to the side and giving the impression of a lane of space when it doesn't exist.

 

You really shouldn't go to to the outside lane and stay there you know.  That's against the highway code and the latest government directive.  Of course, if you were overtaking a car going at 69mph you'd be well within your rights and driving appropriately.


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#87 Johnoco

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:49 AM

As I say GJ, what is the law and what actually happens are two different things. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many speedbumps everywhere would we?


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No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

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#88 Severus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:23 AM

Put it this way, in theory, I should be able to go on the motorway now, get into the fast lane and drive to London at 70mph (conditions permitting)
 
I would be following the law on this and technically would be in the right. But what would happen in reality is that many cars would form behind me banging their horns and a large queue would ensue - which is dangerous, rightly or wrongly. What use is being on the right side of the law if someone ploughs into your rear at high speed? Not much. So I move over and let people pass (hypocrite alert there on motorway driving!)
 
Ditto for cyclists that might be following the law but it is in their own interest to ensure they are not riding side by side on a dual carriageway or some such scenario. It really is life or death and not worth arguing with a speeding car over.


There are no fast lanes on a motorway, I think you mean overtaking lanes :P.
Fides invicta triumphat

#89 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:25 AM

As I say GJ, what is the law and what actually happens are two different things. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many speedbumps everywhere would we?

 

If we had effective traffic enforcement we wouldn't need speedbumps.


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#90 Severus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:27 AM

As I say GJ, what is the law and what actually happens are two different things. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many speedbumps everywhere would we?


Don't get me started on speed bumps and rumble strips, a nightmare if you are on a bike. Is it really that difficult to drive within the speed limit. I'm not saying I'm a saint but you have a fairly good idea what is and what isn't a safe speed on the roads (incidentally I would be for an increase on the motorway speed limit under certain conditions). Some drivers see driving as either a race or a challenge to see how fast they can get to their destination.

Edited by Severus, 30 August 2013 - 11:27 AM.

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#91 Bob8

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:35 AM

Cyclists are often nutters.  This is not because cyclists are nutters, but because cycling is dangerous.  The reason it is dangerous is because of sharing the road with cars. 

 

Cyclists often do not signal, but very few motorists seem to understand what it means.  Being seen is the main priority and being in bright clothes and in front of the car often has little effect on this.

 

Combining the two effects is what causes this argument.


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#92 Johnoco

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:03 PM

There are no fast lanes on a motorway, I think you mean overtaking lanes :P.

Pedant ;)

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With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

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#93 Johnoco

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:08 PM

If we had effective traffic enforcement we wouldn't need speedbumps.

And how is this achieved?
Look at schools. Outside any school this afternoon* you will see people parked on the zig zags/double yellows/blocking residents etc etc

When they try to enforce this, they are greeted with a shower of abuse. And this is just a school, trying to enforce traffic rules in some areas of Bradford would be mayhem.

*OK so schools are still on holiday :P

Edited by Johnoco, 30 August 2013 - 12:10 PM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#94 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:10 PM

And how is this achieved?
Look at schools. Outside any school this afternoon you will see people parked on the zig zags/double yellows/blocking residents etc etc

When they try to enforce this, they are greeted with a shower of abuse. And this is just a school, trying to enforce traffic rules in some areas of Bradford would be mayhem.

 

Then you increase the resources for enforcement.


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#95 Griff

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:36 PM

We've established in this situation that the cyclists are the ones following the rules of the road correctly.

 

As detailed in the original post or generally ?


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#96 Johnoco

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:38 PM

Then you increase the resources for enforcement.

I agree. But it won't happen

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#97 Griff

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

Ideally I would like to see that, but it would be very difficult to enforce and expensive to manage.

 

Well, we could introduce a cycling licence.  And cycling tests.

 

Bit like a driving licence.  And driving tests.


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#98 ckn

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:47 PM

Well, we could introduce a cycling licence.  And cycling tests.

 

Bit like a driving licence.  And driving tests.

We weren't allowed to ride a bike to school until we'd attended and passed an hour long course given by one of the local police officers.  The school's view was that if you can't pass that relatively simple test then you shouldn't be riding your bike on a public road.


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#99 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:51 PM

As detailed in the original post or generally ?

 

Derwent's two cyclists on the dual carriageway & in the original post.


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#100 gingerjon

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

Well, we could introduce a cycling licence.  And cycling tests.

 

Bit like a driving licence.  And driving tests.

 

I did cycle training after deciding to get on my bike in my 30s after 20 years of not cycling.  It was very useful.  I'd urge all cyclists to do the same.

 

The tragedy of it though is that what it teaches you - the very things that make you safe, confident etc - are often things that motorists who don't cycle regard as bad cycling.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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