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The price of a cyclist's life: 240 hours unpaid work


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#121 Saint Billinge

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

Saint I presume you are referring to the Rainford by pass 'cycle' track which is use by cyclists, runners, walkers, dog walkers etc. as a cyclist it it probably safer to cycle on the main carriageway than the track since that way you will not have to avoid pedestrians. And you have right of way at junctions.

That cycle track has give way marking on every junction, even tracks leading to a a farm shop. now as a cyclist if you are traveling in the same direction of the traffic, how can you safely give way to traffic coming up directly behind you?

Genuine question I would be grateful for an answer.

 

That's the one. I appreciate cycle tracks are questionable, but I always used them when I could and never came to a mishap. That aside, I have been hit three times by people cycling on the pavement. And don't get me going on drivers of vehicles! 



#122 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:51 AM

No training is going a bit far. Cycle training goes on in schools and should be taught by parents when buying their child a bike. But a formal driving style test is just too difficult to implement.

 

I say again, they're allowed out on the roads with no formal training whatsoever.  In other words, it's not illegal.

 

If the training is adequate, why do so many trundle down the wrong side of the road without lights at night ?  Or think No Entry signs don't apply to them ?


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#123 gingerjon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:52 AM

I say again, they're allowed out on the roads with no formal training whatsoever.  In other words, it's not illegal.

 

If the training is adequate, why do so many trundle down the wrong side of the road without lights at night ?  Or think No Entry signs don't apply to them ?

 

Presumably you think the driving test is also sub standard?


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#124 Severus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

I say again, they're allowed out on the roads with no formal training whatsoever. In other words, it's not illegal.

If the training is adequate, why do so many trundle down the wrong side of the road without lights at night ? Or think No Entry signs don't apply to them ?

No one taking to the road has no road sense whatsoever. You get bad cyclists in the same way you get bad drivers and having formal training for drivers doesn't seem to eradicate this so why would it for cyclists. I really don't think there is that much of an issue with bad cyclists, the majority are fine. If someone wants to ride like an idiot then that is up to them, most likely they will get hurt. If a driver drives like and idiot people get killed as evident in the OP.

Edited by Severus, 31 August 2013 - 09:58 AM.

Fides invicta triumphat

#125 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:07 AM

Presumably you think the driving test is also sub standard?

 

Indeed.  It should include some supervised motorway driving.


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#126 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:09 AM

 I really don't think there is that much of an issue with bad cyclists, the majority are fine.

 

Not my experience.

 

Again, for me, this is about protecting cyclists from their own foolishness.


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#127 gingerjon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:09 AM

Indeed.  It should include some supervised motorway driving.

 

We agree on something!


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#128 Severus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:18 AM

Not my experience.

Again, for me, this is about protecting cyclists from their own foolishness.


Was the chap in the OP foolish? Ginger Jon mentioned the stats from the study done regarding collisions invoking cyclists and vehicles. Car drivers were at fault for most of the collisions, doesn't that suggest its car drivers that need the training as not the cyclists?
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#129 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

We agree on something!

 

Allus summat to agree on, jon.


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#130 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:22 AM

Was the chap in the OP foolish? Ginger Jon mentioned the stats from the study done regarding collisions invoking cyclists and vehicles. Car drivers were at fault for most of the collisions, doesn't that suggest its car drivers that need the training as not the cyclists?

 

1. No - but it makes no sense to extrapolate from a minority incident.

 

2. Those statistics seem highly unlikely to me.


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#131 gingerjon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

It's a different report from the TfL one I was quoting but I've found this from a DfT study done in 2009:

 

With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time

 

and

 

The study, carried out for the Department for Transport, found that in 2% of cases where cyclists were seriously injured in collisions with other road users police said that the rider disobeying a stop sign or traffic light was a likely contributing factor. Wearing dark clothing at night was seen as a potential cause in about 2.5% of cases, and failure to use lights was mentioned 2% of the time.

The figures were slightly higher when the cyclist was killed, but in such cases only the driver's account is available.

 

Report in the Guardian


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#132 Severus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:29 AM

1. No - but it makes no sense to extrapolate from a minority incident.

2. Those statistics seem highly unlikely to me.


Why unlikely, it seems to support my experience both as a cyclist and a car driver.
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#133 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

That's the one. I appreciate cycle tracks are questionable, but I always used them when I could and never came to a mishap. That aside, I have been hit three times by people cycling on the pavement. And don't get me going on drivers of vehicles!


I used to use that track but after a collision with a car and a pedestrian in it I don't use it. Also have you noticed that this bike track is used as a car park for various maintainence vehicles

Edited by Bostik Bailey, 31 August 2013 - 11:45 AM.


#134 Griff

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

Why unlikely, it seems to support my experience both as a cyclist and a car driver.

 

Your experience is clearly not my experience.


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#135 Severus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:50 PM

Your experience is clearly not my experience.


My experience is backed up by empirical evidence. Yours on the other had directly contradicts this evidence.
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#136 Griff

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:56 AM

My experience is backed up by empirical evidence. Yours on the other had directly contradicts this evidence.

 

 

Mine is backed up with empirical evidence of my own*.  Yours, on the other hand, directly contradicts this evidence.

 

 

 

 

*ie. I use my own eyes.


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#137 gingerjon

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:01 AM

Mine is backed up with empirical evidence of my own*.  Yours, on the other hand, directly contradicts this evidence.

 

 

 

 

*ie. I use my own eyes.

 

Naughty Sev for going with data not anecdotes.


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#138 JohnM

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:56 PM

To be honest, its motorists who need educating. As a body, they disdain the rule of law. Over 1, 000, 000 speeding tickets a year....and that's just the few that get caught. Add the millions of parking violations and you get a picture of mass civil disobedience.

I've just passed my Advanced Motorxycling test and as part of this you are required to ride at the legal speed limits. In doing so, the aggravation, intimidation and bullying from law breaking motorists has to be seen to believed.

#139 Johnoco

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

Reverse the number of motorists with cyclists and you will still get the same behaviour. It's not a motorists or cyclist things - its a human thing

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#140 Saint Billinge

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:50 PM

To be honest, its motorists who need educating. As a body, they disdain the rule of law. Over 1, 000, 000 speeding tickets a year....and that's just the few that get caught. Add the millions of parking violations and you get a picture of mass civil disobedience.

I've just passed my Advanced Motorxycling test and as part of this you are required to ride at the legal speed limits. In doing so, the aggravation, intimidation and bullying from law breaking motorists has to be seen to believed.

 

John, I would say it's both. Time after time, I have seen cyclists go through lights on red as well as cycling whilst using a mobile phone. As for motorists, many do behave irresponsibly. As for driving on the motorway, I am shocked at the number of motorists who pass me when going more than the speed limit, especially when it's down to say 50mph due to road works






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