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Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

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#41 Viking Warrior

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:47 AM

And got yourselves a place in SL through a short lived, flawed and disastrous system. Thank your lucky stars you didn't have to play your way in.


mate rest assured if we had to play for a place we would have won it, from the advent of licensing (which was the best thing ever to happen to academy development in this country) widnes ticked the on field box early and went on to build the club into a viable super league outfit, is that too hard for you to understand that on field performances had a minor effect on whether you were granted a license or not, along with have double the average home attendance of any other club and showing a trading profit, as well as a robust financial plan.........that's why we got the license!!
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#42 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:31 AM

mate rest assured if we had to play for a place we would have won it, from the advent of licensing (which was the best thing ever to happen to academy development in this country) widnes ticked the on field box early and went on to build the club into a viable super league outfit, is that too hard for you to understand that on field performances had a minor effect on whether you were granted a license or not, along with have double the average home attendance of any other club and showing a trading profit, as well as a robust financial plan.........that's why we got the license!!


So your fans who turned up to matches were short changed for a couple of seasons then? As I said..a flawed and disastrous system which has rightly been given the boot.
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#43 keighley

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

If Donny can beat Batley who can beat Fev who can beat Cas does this make them an SL club?

 

After all Donnny have the ground and BTW I saw something about the soccer club and the RL club being jointly taken over with a chance of a bid for SL??

 

What a turnaround. I suggested Doncaster as a place for a possible SL team and you opened up on me with your full armament of smoking 18 inch guns. I'm glad you have seen the light.



#44 keighley

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

mate rest assured if we had to play for a place we would have won it, from the advent of licensing (which was the best thing ever to happen to academy development in this country) widnes ticked the on field box early and went on to build the club into a viable super league outfit, is that too hard for you to understand that on field performances had a minor effect on whether you were granted a license or not, along with have double the average home attendance of any other club and showing a trading profit, as well as a robust financial plan.........that's why we got the license!!

 

All important stuff but this is a sport. Results on the field should be the first determinant with the other stuff ancilliary and maybe a determinant why promotion should be denied if not up to par but rthe firts criteriojn considered should be results on the field.



#45 RS

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

Widnes played the game as the rules were at the time. If the rules had of been different who knows how it would have panned out on the field.

 

 

In any case the reality is a SL place is a key to bankruptcy unless you can get a 7k or 8k home gate average or have a backer.



#46 keighley

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

Widnes played the game as the rules were at the time. If the rules had of been different who knows how it would have panned out on the field.

 

 

In any case the reality is a SL place is a key to bankruptcy unless you can get a 7k or 8k home gate average or have a backer.

 

The accepted home gate was 10,000. Are you fudging things to fit the Widnes reality.?



#47 RSN

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:59 PM

I don't get why fans of Championship clubs are bothered about how Widnes played the game in the Championship.

At the end of the day we got to beat them comfortably and enjoy beating them for a few seasons. That's what sport is all about at the end of the day.

#48 Viking Warrior

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

a couple of seasons? check the results mate, our last season it was when the team was breaking up in order to recruit. but don't let the facts get in the way of your delusions.
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#49 RSN

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:37 PM

Between 2009 and 2011 we met you six times I believe, we won four and you won two.

The 38 - 0 win in the play offs sticks out though.

#50 Viking Warrior

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:51 PM

ah that was during the dessie johnson blatant cheating era on the salary cap wasn't it???
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#51 RS

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

RS, on 23 Sept 2013 - 2:48 PM, said: Widnes played the game as the rules were at the time. If the rules had of been different who knows how it would have panned out on the field.

 

 

In any case the reality is a SL place is a key to bankruptcy unless you can get a 7k or 8k home gate average or have a backer.


keighley, on 23 Sept 2013 - 3:05 PM, said:

 


The accepted home gate was 10,000. Are you fudging things to fit the Widnes reality.?


 

 

 

 

No - Widnes have a backer

 

Incidentally where does the 10k figure come from that is required to break even in SL  


Edited by RS, 24 September 2013 - 07:44 AM.


#52 Northern Sol

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:07 PM

 

In any case the reality is a SL place is a key to bankruptcy unless you can get a 7k or 8k home gate average or have a backer.


keighley, on 23 Sept 2013 - 3:05 PM, said:

 


The accepted home gate was 10,000. Are you fudging things to fit the Widnes reality.?


 

 

 

 

No - Widnes have a backer

 

Incidentally where does the 10k figure come from that is required to break even in SL  

 

It's a figure Parksider made up.



#53 keighley

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:52 PM

 

In any case the reality is a SL place is a key to bankruptcy unless you can get a 7k or 8k home gate average or have a backer.


keighley, on 23 Sept 2013 - 3:05 PM, said:

 


The accepted home gate was 10,000. Are you fudging things to fit the Widnes reality.?


 

 

 

 

No - Widnes have a backer

 

Incidentally where does the 10k figure come from that is required to break even in SL  

 

 

To be fair, it is a figure pushed by Parksider and Padge who have apprently done their homewok with the figures to justify it but I was just yanking your chain a bit there. I agree that other factors such as alternative revenue streams from stadium use or a guaranteed influx of cash from a longtime backer such as Davy at Huddersfield can alter that scenario.



#54 RS

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:37 PM

In all honesty when you look at the financial situations and accounts of several clubs if you put together a lower mid table squad then you would be losing money on 7,000 to 8,000 crowds. If you got 7,000 to 8,000 crowds with all actually PAYING through the gate the losses probably wouldn't be too bad and would take a while to accumulate.

 

When you look at say HKRs finances on paying for an upper mid table squad on those gates you can easily see that without outside income the losses quickly become unsustainable. Both Wakefield and Castleford broadly fit into the same category of attendances and they too have racked up losses that threaten their businesses.

 

Those clubs who get gates of 10,000 and over appear to need financial backing as they tend to spend the full cap.

 

Its pretty mind boggling what Salford could lose next year with full cap spending and the prospect of home crowds around the 5,000 mark (or less).

 

My point is twofold the obvious one is that without a backer in SL your on the road to ruin.

 

The second point is that promotion could be the death knell of a club gaining promotion. If a club has an excellent coach and they over perform after promotion say possibly Fev with Powell (assuming he had stayed) its only a matter of time before a richer club lures the coach away.

 

This year it would have been Batley or Sheffield with respect to either you would seriously worry about the future welfare of either club if they went up. A club could take the £1m Sky money and not spend it and ensure the future of the club but in a 12 team SL supposedly reduced to ensure excellence that would devalue SL.


Edited by RS, 24 September 2013 - 02:45 PM.


#55 tim2

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

This year it would have been Batley or Sheffield with respect to either you would seriously worry about the future welfare of either club if they went up. A club could take the £1m Sky money and not spend it and ensure the future of the club but in a 12 team SL supposedly reduced to ensure excellence that would devalue SL.


Very true. In football's Premier League it's largely accepted that you can go up, spend a minimum amount to up the quality a bit and use sheer determination to hack enough points to stay up. And if not, hey ho, keep the cash and do well again in the championship next season. You simply cannot do that in SL. If you went up with the same squad you would be pulverised and that would devalue SL and not be pleasant for your fans. You can only get so much satisfaction from seeing Wigan, Warrington etc. put 60 points on your team week in week out.
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#56 keighley

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:20 PM

Very true. In football's Premier League it's largely accepted that you can go up, spend a minimum amount to up the quality a bit and use sheer determination to hack enough points to stay up. And if not, hey ho, keep the cash and do well again in the championship next season. You simply cannot do that in SL. If you went up with the same squad you would be pulverised and that would devalue SL and not be pleasant for your fans. You can only get so much satisfaction from seeing Wigan, Warrington etc. put 60 points on your team week in week out.

 

London and Salford managed to do that from an incumbent position in SL. How much worse could it have been for a team of quality which won promotion argumented by a few judicious signings to strengthen the squad. Some teams would do a yo yo but some would survive. It happened when Wakefield, Huddersfield, Hull Kr and Castleford were promoted from the lower division. the only serial failure was  Leigh. 

 

Thrashings after promotion are not inevitable, some teams will make it.



#57 The Parksider

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:16 PM

To be fair, it is a figure pushed by Parksider and Padge who have apprently done their homewok with the figures to justify it.....


No homework.

Just listening to Hudge (10K) Bulls chairman (10K) O.Connor (8K) Mr. Wilkinson at barton(8K) etc etc variably needed to run as a fully pro club in all areas or to at least afford full cap.

Below this sugar daddies to make up the shortfall or financial struggle.

Edited by The Parksider, 24 September 2013 - 07:17 PM.


#58 YCKonstantine

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:04 AM

Would love to see highlights.

So can anyone point me in the direction of some?


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#59 Griff

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:40 PM

So can anyone point me in the direction of some?

 

You could do your own research.  Just saying.


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#60 YCKonstantine

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:59 PM

You could do your own research.  Just saying.

Nothing on Featherstone site, nothing on Batley site, nothing on YouTube. Thought the supporters of the actual clubs involved would have a better idea than me as to where to watch their teams highlights.


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