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Does London need a top-class Super League club? (Merged Threads)


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#161 Manx RL

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

Gosh, I thought the Hive was a new stadium.

It is


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#162 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:19 PM

Having been at the Hive today I can only say that if that's a Super league venue I'll eat my hat.

If that is what professional RL in London has come to then I despair


Why? Was it worse than Wheldon Road?

#163 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:26 PM

Why? Was it worse than Wheldon Road?

in my opinion yes


Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.


#164 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

I havent been but from the pictures I've seen it looks more than adequate for a club of the current size of London Broncos. I thought the onus now was on what goes on on the pitch not some ground capacity grading.



#165 The Parksider

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:38 PM

Yep, see your point but I was meaning grass roots as in youngsters, schools and the amateur game.   That is building an interest in the game over a admittedly long period and then hopefully seeing semi-pro club popping within an area that has a stronger root. i.e. interest in the game to build from.
I can see the argument that having a super league club could help as a catalyst for that.


Even in North Leeds where the Rhinos have won Superleague so many times in recent years we struggle for interest in playing RL because soccer is king in an overwhelming fashion. Equally we have RU junior clubs who are vying to get the lions share of the local kids. It's quite telling that my lad who is a Rhinos supporter since a toddler hasn't considered RL as he wants to be with his mates playing soccer, and his school play RU and so the only kids he knows who play club RU play for Yarnbury Junior RUFC. Slowly however after a lot of hard work by Leeds Rhinos community team interest in kids playing RL has taken an upturn through the senior sides playing success and through there being a professional team to encourage it and we now have "North Leeds leapords" and possibly another junior club close to where we are.

I've watched how this works. I've also counted the number of junior clubs in Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and Huddersfield and there's far far more than in Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton and Doncaster. If it's hard to get a kid playing RL in Leeds imagine how hard it would be to get them playing in Nottingham. Look at the grassroots growth in Sheffield 1984-2012?

Edited by The Parksider, 16 September 2013 - 12:41 PM.


#166 Ponterover

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:11 PM

I've watched how this works. I've also counted the number of junior clubs in Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and Huddersfield and there's far far more than in Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton and Doncaster. If it's hard to get a kid playing RL in Leeds imagine how hard it would be to get them playing in Nottingham. Look at the grassroots growth in Sheffield 1984-2012?

 

And yet kids are playing in Nottingham. (http://www.nottinghamrl.co.uk/#) How can this be possible without a flagship club to get their interest?



#167 redjonn

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:19 PM

Even in North Leeds where the Rhinos have won Superleague so many times in recent years we struggle for interest in playing RL because soccer is king in an overwhelming fashion. Equally we have RU junior clubs who are vying to get the lions share of the local kids. It's quite telling that my lad who is a Rhinos supporter since a toddler hasn't considered RL as he wants to be with his mates playing soccer, and his school play RU and so the only kids he knows who play club RU play for Yarnbury Junior RUFC. Slowly however after a lot of hard work by Leeds Rhinos community team interest in kids playing RL has taken an upturn through the senior sides playing success and through there being a professional team to encourage it and we now have "North Leeds leapords" and possibly another junior club close to where we are.

I've watched how this works. I've also counted the number of junior clubs in Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and Huddersfield and there's far far more than in Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton and Doncaster. If it's hard to get a kid playing RL in Leeds imagine how hard it would be to get them playing in Nottingham. Look at the grassroots growth in Sheffield 1984-2012?

Yep, your right about Leeds and RL playing youngsters and hence your general observation on number of youngsters playing.  Mind you at least Leeds kick started a new initiative at the beginning of the year focused on getting more schools playing and youngsters playing at clubs via the foundation. Seems to have had some success and I went along to a couple of the school finals days played at Headingley and South Leeds Stadium. Really great to see the school teams getting a chance to play at the grounds and they where well attended with the kids from the schools cheering their teams.... especially the screaming girls support... very noisy.

 

Incidentally we all go to Leeds for the home games, that is my wife, myself and x3 grown up children,  We will be their on Friday with split loyalties. My son and I are really Saints fans and the missus and girls avid Leeds fans.    When we first married we lived for a short time in St Helen's hence the saints support (originally watched Huyton but enough said) but we moved to Yorkshire a while a go and nearest SL team being Leeds. Took the missus once when my son couldn't make it, literally had to drag her kicking and screaming so to speak but why waste the monies I said... now I've unleashed an avid can't get enough RL Leeds fan and we have to travel to most away games to keep her happy.... so Friday will be interesting..... any way I ramble on....



#168 Griff

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:20 PM

And yet kids are playing in Nottingham. (http://www.nottinghamrl.co.uk/#) How can this be possible without a flagship club to get their interest?

 

Because they can see it on t'telly.

 

Nottingham Outlaws are doing a great job but how many kids have they got playing and how many kids are playing soccer ?


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#169 The Parksider

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:04 PM

And yet kids are playing in Nottingham. (http://www.nottinghamrl.co.uk/#) How can this be possible without a flagship club to get their interest?

 

You know as well as I do a small amount of people kids included play RL all over outside the M62 & Cumbria.

 

A few more play in places like Rochdale and York......

 

The big numbers are all in Superleague areas..........

 

Same for you, Fev/Cas/Wakey disappear out of SL is RL going up or down in the area?. The three clubs fold for good - will RL go up or down in the area?.



#170 Ponterover

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:14 PM

You know as well as I do a small amount of people kids included play RL all over outside the M62 & Cumbria.

 

A few more play in places like Rochdale and York......

 

The big numbers are all in Superleague areas..........

 

Same for you, Fev/Cas/Wakey disappear out of SL is RL going up or down in the area?. The three clubs fold for good - will RL go up or down in the area?.

 

You're the one that believes that RL is only possible within spitting distance of a Super League stadium.  The big numbers are going to be clustered in the heartlands for a while yet, that's sort of why they are called the heartlands.

 

It's great that RL is being played countrywide, from little acorns and all that.

 

Just be happy at that, rather than sneering down at it from "SL is everything towers"



#171 The Parksider

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:54 PM

1. You're the one that believes that RL is only possible within spitting distance of a Super League stadium.   

2. Just be happy at that, rather than sneering down at it from "SL is everything towers"


1. No, I believe that the best return on money lies with professional RL, It attracts money, it attracts quality players, it attracts spectators. It just does.

I'm amazed that you can't see this when Rovers charge for SL has big investors on board, better players want to join you, kids want to play in your academy and your looking at 5,000 crowds.

2. SL is nearly everything and you may remember the long thread we had when the question was where would we be if we had refused the TV deal. Just about everyone thought we'd have several clubs bust and gone, many more down to semi pro, much lower crowds, nobody wanting to invest and less people interested in playing the game.

It was Marauder and Trojan who agreed the game would go downhill, but both wanted to see the back of TV anyway and have much more of a minority but "pure" sport.

#172 keighley

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

1. No, I believe that the best return on money lies with professional RL, It attracts money, it attracts quality players, it attracts spectators. It just does.

I'm amazed that you can't see this when Rovers charge for SL has big investors on board, better players want to join you, kids want to play in your academy and your looking at 5,000 crowds.

2. SL is nearly everything and you may remember the long thread we had when the question was where would we be if we had refused the TV deal. Just about everyone thought we'd have several clubs bust and gone, many more down to semi pro, much lower crowds, nobody wanting to invest and less people interested in playing the game.

It was Marauder and Trojan who agreed the game would go downhill, but both wanted to see the back of TV anyway and have much more of a minority but "pure" sport.

\

I just watched the two videos posted on the forum today about the rise of RL in Fiji as recounted by the founders. Amazing and inspirational stuff.

From nothing to 39 clubs, RLWC semi finalists. A good bet to do well this year. In the schools. Players coming out of the woodwork and many getting life changing contracts with NRL clubs, They were all banned for life by the IRB, had to sleep on floor and mortgage houses to buy national team shirts. No chance of ever really taking off under your scenario because there is no SL or NRL in Fiji.

They are now sponsored by Vodaphone, get funding from the profits of the 2008 world Cup and are doing well. An amazing success story at club and international level with no NRL/SL anywhere in Fiji.

It does seem though that, at various times they got money from the ARL, NRL and sponsorship. That is what the game in the UK should be doing. Some of the Sky money should be used to assist the championship clubs, especially expansion clubs. if this were done some, even if it is only one, lower level wannabe or starter club could do a Fiji and rise to either be a SL club or produce players that could graduate towards SL.

The poster who accused you of looking down from "Super league Towers" has a point. There is no true path for expansion,both top down and bottom up are legitimate routes to success.

The Fiji story could just as well happen in Wales or Gateshead or Cumbria. If the fates allow and the runes are aligned, success will happen in the most unlikely places and from the humblest of beginnings. I think the top down or nothing approach to RL success is not the only way to go.

In truth the Fiji story is almost a latterday repeat of the Australian RL story and look at them now.

#173 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:47 PM

You're the one that believes that RL is only possible within spitting distance of a Super League stadium.  The big numbers are going to be clustered in the heartlands for a while yet, that's sort of why they are called the heartlands.


Indeed.

The RL desert of North Leeds really undermines the idea a SL club will automatically inspire youngsters to take up the game. The reality is that they will only do so when community clubs like the Leopards spring up. And that usually requires RFL / Sport England money and volunteers' time.

The very thing that would get cut back in order to prop up a sinking flagship.

#174 gingerjon

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:31 AM

Indeed.

The RL desert of North Leeds really undermines the idea a SL club will automatically inspire youngsters to take up the game. The reality is that they will only do so when community clubs like the Leopards spring up. And that usually requires RFL / Sport England money and volunteers' time.

The very thing that would get cut back in order to prop up a sinking flagship.

 

North Leeds being miles from an SL club of course.  It's probably four hours drive like it will be down here once London are gone.

 

The Sport England money that's for development is ringfenced, I believe.


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#175 Kenny Bania

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

Why? Was it worse than Wheldon Road?


Couldn't comment on Wheldon Road, but a quick review of The Hive, having gone there on Saturday.

At either end, you've got a very small covered terrace. There were over 500 Lincoln fans in the away end and it felt quite full but not uncomfortable. Toilet facilities in the away stand are pretty basic, just a few loos in a portakabin.

One of the pitchside stands is just a few rows of seats along the back of the sports centre.

The main stand is much more like it though; a decent size and with good sized bar albeit the bar felt very sterile; just a counter and some taps, no decoration.

It's a short walk from Canons Park tube, which is in a very residential area. There is one bar near the tube, but most fans appeared to drink in Stanmore before the game, which has a Wetherspoon's (which didn't exactly seem ready for a load of rowdy Lincoln City fans singing "Ten German bombers") and is only one stop away.

Edited by Kenny Bania, 17 September 2013 - 07:59 AM.





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