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What's going on at S.Wales Scorpions?


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#41 Jeff Stein

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:36 AM

Did they know they were taking a £30k hit (not %)?

The rest of the league appear to have planned accordingly.

 

£30,000 out of £100,000 is 30%.

 

I am afraid there are rumours about other clubs struggling and it appears further cuts are on the way.



#42 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:37 AM

Can you imagine how many buckets would be outside OT if every club short of a few grand in their budget set up camp there? I'm sorry, but like Bradford, it won't work. Professional RL clubs should not be run like a charity.

On that note, are there tax implications on money raised from bucket collections for non-charities? I'm a bit foggy in this area, but I've always been under the impression you can't just give a business £30k and the government not go "where's my slice?"
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#43 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:38 AM

£30,000 out of £100,000 is 30%.

Fair point.

I am afraid there are rumours about other clubs struggling and it appears further cuts are on the way.

Which is why the whole bucket collection thing will not work and will not address any problems.
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#44 Johnoco

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:41 AM

How can you just divvy up the money equally amongst the clubs. Surely some of the newer clubs will have more, or even unexpected expenses than one that has a lot less travelling.

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#45 Jeff Stein

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:46 AM

Which is why the whole bucket collection thing will not work and will not address any problems.

 

I would agree with that. This is an area that needs proper leadership which I don't think CC1 is getting at the moment. CC1 and the bowl have been successful competitions this year yet no one knows what is to happen to CC1 and whether the bowl will actually be played again. The RFL has to decide whether it wants expansion or not. If it does it has to properly support it. The fact that there is talk that they want to ghettoise the development clubs into one separate league away from any relegated heartlands teams shows whose wellbeing is being prioritised.



#46 Blind side johnny

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:48 AM

The RFL are happy to waste money at SL level with Bradford and Crusaders and yet fail to look after development clubs in the Championships. The RFL wanted development clubs to come to the table and rightly so. But to cut their budgets and allow them to struggle  I fail o understand. I would rather the SL clubs got each 50K less and development clubs including Sheffield, Doncaster, Gateshead and Cumbria given the money to help them. The RFL some to often fail to realize how important and diificult things are outside SL especially for development clubs.

 

 

Can you quantify just how much the RFL were "happy to waste" on Crusaders and Bradford?

 

All championship clubs, including my own, have known for a long time that there would be a reduction in central funding this year and have planned accordingly. I don't want to see the Scorpions disappear but why should they be a special case?


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#47 Jim from Oz

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

FFS, when is the entire game of rugby league in the UK going to have DECENT ADMINISTRATION ???????!!!!!!!!!

 

can someone at UK RL HQ get on the phone to someone like a John Quayle and get him to build up the game in the UK ?



#48 Methven Hornet

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

I would agree with that. This is an area that needs proper leadership which I don't think CC1 is getting at the moment. CC1 and the bowl have been successful competitions this year yet no one knows what is to happen to CC1 and whether the bowl will actually be played again. The RFL has to decide whether it wants expansion or not. If it does it has to properly support it. The fact that there is talk that they want to ghettoise the development clubs into one separate league away from any relegated heartlands teams shows whose wellbeing is being prioritised.


Has there been talk of that?
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#49 deluded pom?

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:18 AM

Has there been talk of that?

I was thinking the same.

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#50 Saintslass

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:24 AM

 

 

All championship clubs, including my own, have known for a long time that there would be a reduction in central funding this year and have planned accordingly. I don't want to see the Scorpions disappear but why should they be a special case?

Because they are a special case.  All clubs new to the professional leagues are special cases: they're new. 

 

I really don't understand the myopic thinking of some rugby league fans. 



#51 Methven Hornet

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:25 AM

£30,000 out of £100,000 is 30%.
 
I am afraid there are rumours about other clubs struggling and it appears further cuts are on the way.


The Championship 1 has been an outstanding success in many ways but there has always been the nagging doubt that the clubs - especially the ones away from the heartlands - might not be sustainable in the longer term.
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#52 Methven Hornet

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:52 AM

Because they are a special case.  All clubs new to the professional leagues are special cases: they're new. 
 
I really don't understand the myopic thinking of some rugby league fans.


As well as their 'newness' clubs away from traditional RL towns have specific handicaps when it comes to long-term sustainability. They don't have the generations of people - potential fans - that are steeped in the game. They don't have the playing and coaching resources that heartland clubs have available to them, nor do they usually have the successful - and rich - businessmen who were brought up on the game and who might back them financially.

The game needs to be investing in the game outside of the heartlands, particularly given the failure of Super League in London, and that means diverting resources to the midlands, the south and Wales. Not to 'prop up' failing clubs but to help them build in what are sometimes hostile environments. Basically, to build rugby league communities centred around clubs such as the Scorpions, Hemel, Gloucestershire and Oxford. And, as a start, we should use the SKY TV money freed up from the likely demise of the Broncos for this exact purpose.

Anyone asking for a 'level playing field' is, in reality, asking for another 100+ years of the odds being stacked in favour of the heartlands.


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#53 The Parksider

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:53 AM

Another OTT reply Parky. Has someone upset you? You always take the funding argument to the extreme. You are claiming that professional RL is ALL about SL, period. If the RFL want expansion then a scattergun approach isn't going to work. There has to be some concerted investment.

 

Nobody's "upset" me. I'm just pointing out Scorpions finances and struggles lay bare the argument that all these new teams are in place to grow into Superleague clubs. It's quite absurd on the facts and finances.

 

The better argument is that they exist in the hope someone mega rich will take them on - because that's a policy that has worked for several SL clubs who are doing OK. The argument at least has some logic and reasoning, as opposed to fantasy.



#54 Johnoco

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:12 PM

As well as their 'newness' clubs away from traditional RL towns have specific handicaps when it comes to long-term sustainability. They'rehdon't have the generations of people - potential fans - that are steeped in the game. They don't have the playing and coaching resources that heartland clubs have available to them, nor do they usually have the successful - and rich - businessmen who were brought up on the game and who might back them financially.

The game needs to be investing in the game outside of the heartlands, particularly given the failure of Super League in London, and that means diverting resources to the midlands, the south and Wales. Not to 'prop up' failing clubs but to help them build in what are sometimes hostile environments. Basically, to build rugby league communities centred around clubs such as the Scorpions, Hemel, Gloucestershire and Oxford. And, as a start, we should use the SKY TV money freed up from the likely demise of the Broncos for this exact purpose.

Anyone asking for a 'level playing field' is, in reality, asking for another 100+ years of the odds being stacked in favour of the heartlands.

Absolutely correct.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#55 Saintslass

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:19 PM

As well as their 'newness' clubs away from traditional RL towns have specific handicaps when it comes to long-term sustainability. They don't have the generations of people - potential fans - that are steeped in the game. They don't have the playing and coaching resources that heartland clubs have available to them, nor do they usually have the successful - and rich - businessmen who were brought up on the game and who might back them financially.

The game needs to be investing in the game outside of the heartlands, particularly given the failure of Super League in London, and that means diverting resources to the midlands, the south and Wales. Not to 'prop up' failing clubs but to help them build in what are sometimes hostile environments. Basically, to build rugby league communities centred around clubs such as the Scorpions, Hemel, Gloucestershire and Oxford. And, as a start, we should use the SKY TV money freed up from the likely demise of the Broncos for this exact purpose.

Anyone asking for a 'level playing field' is, in reality, asking for another 100+ years of the odds being stacked in favour of the heartlands.

Exactly right.



#56 The Parksider

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:24 PM

As well as their 'newness' clubs away from traditional RL towns have specific handicaps when it comes to long-term sustainability. They don't have the generations of people - potential fans - that are steeped in the game. They don't have the playing and coaching resources that heartland clubs have available to them, nor do they usually have the successful - and rich - businessmen who were brought up on the game and who might back them financially.

The game needs to be investing in the game outside of the heartlands, particularly given the failure of Super League in London, and that means diverting resources to the midlands, the south and Wales. Not to 'prop up' failing clubs but to help them build in what are sometimes hostile environments. Basically, to build rugby league communities centred around clubs such as the Scorpions, Hemel, Gloucestershire and Oxford. And, as a start, we should use the SKY TV money freed up from the likely demise of the Broncos for this exact purpose.

Anyone asking for a 'level playing field' is, in reality, asking for another 100+ years of the odds being stacked in favour of the heartlands.

 

Fabulous first paragraph MH how true.

 

But exactly how do you build up interest in Rugby League around the presence of a third tier outfit.

 

It hasn't helped RL in Rochdale, York, Oldham etc to rebuild and they have the advantages of 100+ years in the heartlands?


Edited by The Parksider, 08 September 2013 - 12:25 PM.


#57 Scubby

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

Fabulous first paragraph MH how true.

 

But exactly how do you build up interest in Rugby League around the presence of a third tier outfit.

 

It hasn't helped RL in Rochdale, York, Oldham etc to rebuild and they have the advantages of 100+ years in the heartlands?

 

If Rochdale, York or Oldham do well then they have a large base of dormant RL fans on their doorstep. They also have access to better players and coaches from the local area and clubs within a few miles away. They do not need to advertise their success because the local press have spent 100 years picking up on good news stories and reporting about these clubs. If they progress then up the ladder then you have large visiting fan bases with short journeys to make

 

With outpost clubs they have to fight for every column inch. To get better they have to relocate players to boost local ones. They have to relocate coaching staff. Those large visiting fan bases take a sprinkling of fans on a 400 mile round trip. Players have to also travel long distances around full time work. If they produce a potential star player then the local RU vultures are there to cherry pick.

 

It is a world of difference and should be treated as so.


Edited by Scubby, 08 September 2013 - 12:38 PM.


#58 jpmc

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

Fabulous first paragraph MH how true.
 
But exactly how do you build up interest in Rugby League around the presence of a third tier outfit.
 
It hasn't helped RL in Rochdale, York, Oldham etc to rebuild and they have the advantages of 100+ years in the heartlands?


Sometimes i think the fact these clubs have been around for so long is as much an hindrance as it is a help.
The older generations who have stopped watching for what ever reason,generally dont have much good to say about the club because most of the time its been rubbish.And then theres the competition from SL clubs on ther door steps.

New clubs in new areas dont have these problems.I think the problem for new clubs is to convince the local communities that they are serious in what they are doing and are worth investing money and time into.

#59 Jeff Stein

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:21 PM

Has there been talk of that?

 

Yes. I understand that a regionalised structure was put forward. Even recall seeing a flow chart of it in a publication, but I can't recall which one.



#60 Jeff Stein

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:22 PM

As well as their 'newness' clubs away from traditional RL towns have specific handicaps when it comes to long-term sustainability. They don't have the generations of people - potential fans - that are steeped in the game. They don't have the playing and coaching resources that heartland clubs have available to them, nor do they usually have the successful - and rich - businessmen who were brought up on the game and who might back them financially.

The game needs to be investing in the game outside of the heartlands, particularly given the failure of Super League in London, and that means diverting resources to the midlands, the south and Wales. Not to 'prop up' failing clubs but to help them build in what are sometimes hostile environments. Basically, to build rugby league communities centred around clubs such as the Scorpions, Hemel, Gloucestershire and Oxford. And, as a start, we should use the SKY TV money freed up from the likely demise of the Broncos for this exact purpose.

Anyone asking for a 'level playing field' is, in reality, asking for another 100+ years of the odds being stacked in favour of the heartlands.

 

Absolutely.






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