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Nick Clegg


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#1 ckn

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:22 AM

We've had the threads on Miliband and Cameron... now one on the also-ran of the leaders, Nick Clegg.

 

In today's papers, Sarah Teather announced she was standing down in 2015 with a bit of a swipe at Nick Clegg's merry abandonment of nearly everything that the Lib Dems have campaigned and stood for over the last decade.  Today's papers also would have him unhappy about the latest opinion poll with the Lib Dems at 7%, and that's from a paper that's traditionally Lib Dem friendly.

 

If you study Nick Clegg's body language at PMQs and other times where he has to stand with the government, he looks like a man facing the firing squad.  Nail biting, staring at the floor, hunched shoulders and the realisation that many people see him as a Tory stooge these days rather than Lib Dem leader.  He gets let out of the cage by Cameron occasionally to be the fall-man for iffy policy decisions but that's about it.

 

So... anyone see a way out for Clegg that'll save the Lib Dems from obscurity in 2015?


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#2 Wolford6

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:36 AM

Suicide.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#3 archibald

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:50 AM

The Lib Dems have had more of their policies enacted than at any time in the last 3 decades. For years they were inches away from having "Free bananas for schoolkids named Bob" in their manifesto. They've just realised even having the smallest say into what goes on is a balancing act.

 

Will they get wiped out in 2015? It depends on whether those who voted for them last time would prefer to hand out fruit to kids named Robert or not.

 

As for Sarah Teather, she sees her seat changing hands in 2015.



#4 Wiltshire Rhino

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

Who's Nick Clegg?

2014 Challenged Cup Winner

 


#5 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

Nick Clegg will end up with a safe Tory seat. He doesn't have a chance in his own constituency.



#6 Tiny Tim

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:24 PM

 

So... anyone see a way out for Clegg that'll save the Lib Dems from obscurity in 2015?

 

No. Sold out.

 

Time to close the thread.


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#7 PC

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:57 PM


The Lib Dems have had more of their policies enacted than at any time in the last 3 decades. For years they were inches away from having.


Which policies? Scrapping Trident? Scrapping tuition fees? Proper electoral reform?

They're the big three that the Lib Dems have fought for. Not only have the Lib Dems failed, but Trident is being renewed, tuition fees have gone up and the Tories are gerrymandering the political map for their own benefit.

On top if that, the Lib Dems have been complicit in the biggest act of sabotage to the welfare state, possibly, ever.

So, what policies have the Lib Dems had implemented?

#8 archibald

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:16 PM

Which policies? Scrapping Trident? Scrapping tuition fees? Proper electoral reform? They're the big three that the Lib Dems have fought for. Not only have the Lib Dems failed, but Trident is being renewed, tuition fees have gone up and the Tories are gerrymandering the political map for their own benefit. On top if that, the Lib Dems have been complicit in the biggest act of sabotage to the welfare state, possibly, ever. So, what policies have the Lib Dems had implemented?

If they had an outright majority then the first 3 you mention may well have happened, however, they don't so they weren't.

 

They've had continued NHS privatisation, to be fair, that was a bit of a lock as it's in the 3 main parties manifestos.

The increase in personal allowance.

 

So, there's 2, which is 2 more than they've had in the past 3 decades.

 

Biggest act of sabotage? Really? How so?



#9 ckn

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:27 PM

In return for increasing the income tax personal allowance, they've abetted the Conservatives in their policies.  They even negotiated an opt-out on student fees in the Coalition Agreement as it was so important yet when it came to vote for it Nick Clegg imposed a 3 line whip on his party to vote FOR student fee increases.

If they'd decided to not go into a Coalition, the Tories would have had to work on a minority government, meaning they'd have had to actually work across Parliament to get things done.  We may have actually had a few non-partisan policies while Parliament could have stopped the Tories in their tracks with the big stuff.  Of course, that would have meant that the other parties wouldn't have been able to act like spoiled brats and try to bring down the government on every vote.

 

It worked remarkably well in the Scottish Parliament with the parties having to grow up a bit or seem like petulant children to the electorate.  In Scotland, the 4th party there, the Tories, often still get policies passed despite them being in a SNP majority government as they've learned to negotiate and co-operate cross-party.  In the UK Parliament, they haven't had to learn that trick yet.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#10 archibald

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:44 PM

In return for increasing the income tax personal allowance, they've abetted the Conservatives in their policies.  They even negotiated an opt-out on student fees in the Coalition Agreement as it was so important yet when it came to vote for it Nick Clegg imposed a 3 line whip on his party to vote FOR student fee increases.

If they'd decided to not go into a Coalition, the Tories would have had to work on a minority government, meaning they'd have had to actually work across Parliament to get things done.  We may have actually had a few non-partisan policies while Parliament could have stopped the Tories in their tracks with the big stuff.  Of course, that would have meant that the other parties wouldn't have been able to act like spoiled brats and try to bring down the government on every vote.

 

It worked remarkably well in the Scottish Parliament with the parties having to grow up a bit or seem like petulant children to the electorate.  In Scotland, the 4th party there, the Tories, often still get policies passed despite them being in a SNP majority government as they've learned to negotiate and co-operate cross-party.  In the UK Parliament, they haven't had to learn that trick yet.

Of course they have, that's the price you pay for being a minority partner. They had a chance to form a government, it's what political parties want to do. Otherwise, it's "Bananas for Bob". If you voted Lib Dem, you've got infinitely more than what you normally get, in fact, even if you voted Labour, you've got what you voted for. Apart from ID cards.

 

If the response of the Government to Lord Browne’s report is one that Liberal Democrats cannot accept, then arrangements will be made to enable Liberal Democrat MPs to abstain in any vote.

 

 



#11 ckn

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

So, one policy is enough to justify losing 18 percentage points in opinion polls, being willing accomplices in the Tory policies and consigning the Lib Dems to political hell just short of Monster Raving Loony relevance?

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#12 archibald

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:43 PM

So, one policy is enough to justify losing 18 percentage points in opinion polls, being willing accomplices in the Tory policies and consigning the Lib Dems to political hell just short of Monster Raving Loony relevance?

What did you want then? A whole raft of pie in the sky policies that looked great on paper, so when you suffer the inevitable disappointment again at general election time you can point to the manifesto and say "if only" while not having to actually do anything?

 

You could have sod all policies while polling 10 percentage points higher.



#13 ckn

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:46 PM

What did you want then? A whole raft of pie in the sky policies that looked great on paper, so when you suffer the inevitable disappointment again at general election time you can point to the manifesto and say "if only" while not having to actually do anything?

 

You could have sod all policies while polling 10 percentage points higher.

They could have had many more by having a votes for policies pact with the Tories in a minority Government.  It might have meant fewer minister salaries for the Lib Dem MPs but they could have had far more policies implemented.  The tie of collective responsibility means that the Lib Dems have to support Government policy whether they like it or not, if they were an outsider party shoring up the Tory minority then they'd have far more leverage.


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Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#14 archibald

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:40 PM

Right now they're an outsider party shoring up the Tory minority. Their negotiating position is slightly "stronger" now, if they'd have said no to the coalition, the Tories could do a deal with whoever they liked, even Labour to get stuff done, the Lib Dems would have continued to be a footnote and Sarah Teather would be as happy as a pig in ######.



#15 Wolford6

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:24 PM

Next time, the Tories will form a pre-election concord  with UKIP and the Libdems will form one with Labour. Could be a close-run thing.


Edited by Wolford6, 08 September 2013 - 11:24 PM.

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#16 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:13 AM

Well he's managed to save his political career and his party's popularity with he new piece of legislation

The 5p tax on plastic bags

When I heard this it really brought home that after all the other policies he sacrificed he really has his finger on the pulse, hey who needs cheaper university fees, electoral reform, and who care about the dismantling of the NHS, when this will save all the pandas and polar bears.

Seriously this is a scrap of poor legislatin that puts a sticking plaster over the environmental issues.

#17 archibald

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

and who care about the dismantling of the NHS,

24m people voted for this continued "dismantling" in 2010. Unfortunately the minority independent party you voted for, who vowed to stop the "dismantling" is likely never to gain power. But at least you did your bit.



#18 The Future is League

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

Nick Clegg will end up with a safe Tory seat. He doesn't have a chance in his own constituency.

Wasn't he a member of the Cambridge University Conservative Association, but has forgotten about it?



#19 PC

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:27 AM


24m people voted for this continued "dismantling" in 2010. Unfortunately the minority independent party you voted for, who vowed to stop the "dismantling" is likely never to gain power. But at least you did your bit.


No they didn't. In fact, the Tories said there would be no major restructuring of the NHS. A blatant lie. Even Labour would not do what the Tories are doing, that wasn't there plan. The Tories are simply handing it over to their friends in the private health sector.

#20 archibald

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

Actually, you're right, some may have voted for whoever and not give a toss about the NHS anyway, it's the hypocritical oafs who are now bleating about the continued NHS sell off while voting for a party who promise to continue selling it off.

 

In case you missed it, here's the bit from Labour. The bit in bold at the end.

 

We will continue to press ahead with bold NHS reforms. All hospitals will become Foundation Trusts, with successful FTs given the support and incentives to take over those that are under-performing. Failing hospitals will have their management replaced. Foundation Trusts will be given the freedom to expand their provision into primary and community care, and to increase their private services

 

 

I think you mean the Tories are handing over the bits not already handed over by Labour, take Capita.

http://www.capita.co...to-the-nhs.aspx

I suppose it's just a coincidence that Rod Aldridge handed over a shed load of cash to the Labour party.

As with B. Bailey, unfortunately the minority party you also voted for probably won't ever get the chance to renationalise it.


Edited by archibald, 14 September 2013 - 01:35 PM.





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