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Italian Rugby League - FIRL - FIRFL rivalry/dispute (merged threads)


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#1 gnidir

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:51 AM

12th September 2013

The RLIF is working closely through the RLEF to develop a bright future for rugby league in Italy. The world cup will be a crowning event after 18-months of considerable organisational re-structuring and improvement both on and off the field, led by Federazione Italiana Rugby League President Orazio D’arro, General Secretary Alfonso Peloso and their fellow directors.

No other Italian organisation is recognised, verified or approved and any public declarations to the contrary should be disregarded. The RLIF cannot verify the safety of participants or legitimacy of any version of rugby league being played outside the jurisdiction of FIRL and urge participants and clubs with a genuine interest in the development of rugby league to approach FIRL.

The democratic process remains open to all Italian rugby league clubs wishing to contribute constructively to the development of the sport in Italy and we welcome their interest.

We wish the Italian Rugby League World Cup team every success in the competition as they will join Australia and England in the opening ceremony double header where Italy will play Wales, in Cardiff on October 26, 2013.

Scott Carter
RLIF Chairman

 

 

Who is this man?  the unrecognised body, as opposed to this lot who seen intent on shipping as many Aussies in as they can, are actually growing the game throughout Italy. This reeks of an attempt to undermine the unrecognised body and bully them into joining the FIRL.

 

Scott Carter, shame on you.



#2 deluded pom?

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 06:15 AM

This man is, as it says at the bottom of the statement, the chairman of the RLIF.

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#3 gnidir

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:45 AM

Really? thats your response to someone in a position of responsibility in our game attempting to bully people with a genuine interest in growing League domestically into ceding and following instruction of an inferior set up? Nice to see you focussing on the important points there pal.



#4 nadera78

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:47 AM

Really? thats your response to someone in a position of responsibility in our game attempting to bully people with a genuine interest in growing League domestically into ceding and following instruction of an inferior set up? Nice to see you focussing on the important points there pal.

How do you know it's an inferior set up? No-one outside of Italy knows what's happened there at all.


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#5 deluded pom?

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

People whinge if the RLIF say or do nothing and they whinge when they do or say something.

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#6 gnidir

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:21 PM

How do you know it's an inferior set up? No-one outside of Italy knows what's happened there at all.

No one knows whats happening with that set up!

 

The FIRFL have Facebook, post regular updates through here, have videos, pictures, actual television coverage, a two tier progressive competition

 

I know whats going on because i look for the information.

 

 

 

People whinge if the RLIF say or do nothing and they whinge when they do or say something.

 

My point is that they are trying to shoehorn the FIRFL to come under the instruction of the FIRL.

 

The FIRFL is the bigger and more progressive organisation, in my opinion, growing the game in an open and transparent fashion, recognised by the Italian government and its sporting committee.

 

The other lot, well who knows? They have a world cup team, Paul Broadbent (I think) and a shed load of Australians, beyond that, form what I can find, they have 4 teams who play at irregular intervals.

 

Im all for the RLIF making the choice to stand by the FIRL, but to attempt to undermine the more successful organisation is quite frankly, a trick straight from the IRBs playbook.



#7 Italia RFL

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:22 PM

I was surprised about seeing another similar statement as various in the past, but contacted Tas for more information on Friday.

It was about an u17 player getting injured (needed helicopter) in the FIRFL youth match and it made media reports (local online and newspapers) so there was a complaint by FIRL that it may create confusion (their organisation not involved) and a complaint about medical.
(1) in those articles and even post GF newspaper coverage, our executives have mentioned we are not associated with FIRL (a second federation) and not associated with the RLIF/RLEF but for the need for democracy.
No claims of being the official federation at all.
(2) Ive returned to Aus back from Italy later last week, but wasn't at the u17 match, however from all the major events/matches I've witnessed an ambulance and an medial officer were in attendence.

The other was something about Sponsorship in that companies FIRL are contacting for RLWC know about two organisations. Not aware of too much of the details with this issue however. FIRFL had 3-4 major sponsors for the international/domestic activity however

 

cheers Joel M



#8 keighley

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:26 AM

The RLIF should be using their bully pulpit to get these two organisations to unite as seems to be happening in the USA. Whilst they may support one over the other the tone of their input should be conciliatory and welcoming to the other set up with a view to starting merger negotiations. The game is in it's infancy in Italy and to be split like it is crazy and self destructive.

#9 Jim from Oz

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:04 AM

Nothing bores me more than 2 warring RL administrations. Somebody sort out Italy RL please !



#10 statties

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:45 AM

FIRL are the governing body. You can't expect the RLIF to support both.

As Scott Carter said, FIRL is the governing body which means they satisfy minimum criteria including a democratic constitution recognised by the government. Despite the claims of the other organisation, I doubt they have any government backing let alone Federation status recognised by the Italian government.

If the other clubs and FIRFL wish to influence the development of the sport in Italy, they should join FIRL and act within the parameters of the constitution. This is how they can gain respect and support from the RLEF and RLIF.

Simples.

#11 Italia RFL

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:38 AM

No Italian Federation is recognised by the Italian government, both federations are undergoing the process.

FIRFL has a positive relationship with CONI - fact. Any Italian sports constitution should 100% match CONI rules, official criteria and procedures. FIRFL want democracy that matches this (this has been the common theme from FIRFL executives).

 

 

Joel


Edited by Italia RFL, 18 September 2013 - 02:48 AM.


#12 Italia RFL

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:39 AM

FIRFL Statement, President Massitti « Our movement grows visibly »

The Federazione Italiana Rugby Football League is convinced our rugby league movement is growing visibly, David Massitti says "Last season we have got a lot of important numbers - says the federal chief executive - and I personally found the finals thrilling, which was played between Gladiators Roma and Falchi Pian Del Bruscolo (Pesaro). I believe that, for the level of play that we have seen at Acquacetosa, it was the best game of rugby league ever played in Italy. Among other things, the match was played with excellent public support, characterized by the presence of many "experts" (professionals or well-known Rugby people in Rome) and people of great competence who appreciated the event of the Final Four.
 
In our league, furthermore, was the presence of the strong team of Frosinone Bisonti, a team that plays within the prison of Frosinone. An experiment of great social significance that has filled us with pride, "Not only with our Championship.”Last season was also one of progress (within our youth program) at Civitavecchia and Avezzano , for the newly formed National Under-17 (development program from north to Sicilia) - highlights Massitti – a further sign of the structural growth of our movement. Among other things, on the occasion of the appointment of abruzzo, a health problem to one of the boys on the field occurred and our medical staff together with the rescue supported and promptly revived. I take this opportunity to publicly congratulate also the entire structure of the medical personal of FIRFL where there are people of high professionalism. "
"We need to continue to grow steadily - says Massitti - trying to take new steps forward with both the League and the Italian Cup that will return from next spring and throughout the summer. But we will also have the honor of organizing international meetings with our national program (and more junior selections) both in Italy and abroad: all signs of the growing international consideration of our movement. Another that will be launched , finally, projects related to schools and social aspects, this time at an international level , always with young people because we consider of primary importance for this participation to our discipline.” In closing Massitti says “do not forget the difficulties of "coexistence" that there has been in recent times.
 
There's another movement of rugby league in Italy that has strongly resented us and which was not possible with any form of dialogue and democratic unification. We have been accused unjustly, we do not want reunification. We now have irrefutable evidence that we were not the ones that really did not want to reunite. We have many times contacted international bodies, showing total openness to a reunification process based on democracy and reunification on real work in the territory: too much we were ignored. We, therefore, will continue on our way and then the CONI (Italian Olympic National Committee) will decide who will have the necessary requirements as an institution to advance the discipline of rugby a 13 (in Italy).”


#13 gnidir

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:06 AM

What that guy said :)

#14 brooza

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:55 AM

Ultimately, you can't expect the RLIF to switch to supporting FIRFL this close to the RLWC


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#15 nadera78

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

What that guy said :)

So you believe a press release from one of the protagonists but not a press release from RLIF? 


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#16 gnidir

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:23 AM

So you believe a press release from one of the protagonists but not a press release from RLIF? 

You miss my point. I was annoyed by the tact taken by the RLIF in trying to force a progressive organisation to sit under the command of the less progressive one.

 

My second point was that, as opposed to the FIRL, the unofficial FIRFL actually publish news of their activities, its easy to see the progress they are making as there is actual substantiated news, not rumours of finals and competitions.

 

In short, I believe that the press release from the RLIF is their truthful opinion and stance, but I dont agree with its tactic or aim.

 

If your question was if I believe what the FIRFL are doing, the answer would be yes, do i know enough about the FIRL to have a fully formed opinion, the answer is no, mainly because they are badly publicised, and from the outside seem to be in the mould of the AMNRL set up of a few years ago.



#17 gnidir

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:26 AM

Ultimately, you can't expect the RLIF to switch to supporting FIRFL this close to the RLWC

 

 

Ultimately, you can't expect the RLIF to switch to supporting FIRFL this close to the RLWC

I agree and have never suggested this, again, its the tact of the RLIF in the press release which has annoyed me,



#18 nadera78

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:18 AM

You miss my point. I was annoyed by the tact taken by the RLIF in trying to force a progressive organisation to sit under the command of the less progressive one.

 

My second point was that, as opposed to the FIRL, the unofficial FIRFL actually publish news of their activities, its easy to see the progress they are making as there is actual substantiated news, not rumours of finals and competitions.

 

In short, I believe that the press release from the RLIF is their truthful opinion and stance, but I dont agree with its tactic or aim.

 

If your question was if I believe what the FIRFL are doing, the answer would be yes, do i know enough about the FIRL to have a fully formed opinion, the answer is no, mainly because they are badly publicised, and from the outside seem to be in the mould of the AMNRL set up of a few years ago.

So you're taking as gospel the PR being sent out by FIRFL.

 

Truth is, none of us knows what's going on in Italy. The situation in the US is, comparatively, a lot clearer.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#19 gnidir

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:31 PM

So you're taking as gospel the PR being sent out by FIRFL.

 

Truth is, none of us knows what's going on in Italy. The situation in the US is, comparatively, a lot clearer.

NO, im looking at the evidence provided by third parties base my opinion mate, there is photographic and video evidence, plus reputable newspapers publishing information. 



#20 CQItalia

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:15 AM

DEMOCRACY?

At times in the past people been asked to keep quiet and I’ve respected that for a majority of year until recently, but shouldn’t this apply to everyone??? It has been constant complaints by the FIRL after most press releases about the "rebels" development this year and also many comments by a couple of FIRL members on the rebels facebook page.

 

But no responses to a proposal for unification??

 

 

 

In relation to democracy, the FIRFL proposal is to follow all CONI procedures and policies (chiefly board/membership structure and voting).

This includes:

  •  The executive should be members of clubs within Italy, NOT mostly based in foreign countries. This shows the home of a federation is not in Italy (this is the mere truth, not questioning the passion or worth of anyone).
  • FIRL want the statute divided into four main regional committees with always a set number of votes for each, so if CENTRAL had 20 members and NW had 8 votes (even with 4 members) it would not matter. This simply does NOT reflect the Number of clubs or Domestic Development. Add in the FIRL would add further votes from three foreign sub-committees (AUS, ENG and FRA) and others such as Referees, Players, Coaches, etc. One can see this is NOT DEMOCRATIC (and there is evidence of this…)
  • Hence, 1 vote per 1 team.

Not everyone has to be on the executive board but I think can still have a good say or be involved with strengthening rugby league in their club or area.

 

 

 

 

DOMESTIC DEVELOPMENT?

FIRL members have repeatedly labelled the “Rebels” dishonest, non-transparent and liars most often behind the scenes. Then please explain this promoted DOMESTIC DEVELOPMENT? This year the FIRL Championship was repeatedly announced in pressers to have 12 clubs, this later followed with a presser about 11 teams before the Season Launch and their website had 10 clubs in an uncompleted table and FIRL since stating 10 clubs, but the RLEF state 8 “ITA 4 club / 6 match comp in 2010; 10 club / 15 match comp in 2013 [8 clubs.” But the numbers do not add up for matches according to the website. Half the clubs played 1 championship game (or none) according to results; Tirreno Sharks played XIII della Ghirlandina only once with the Tirreno official has continued to ridicule Rebel development from earlier this. The NE Italian (Padova, VE) conference is unclear in regards to teams (outside of Este Rams) and results.

 

Credit where it is due, the North West competition appears under positive conference management (led by Kelly Rolleston).

 

 

 

Where is the Firenze RL? Why did Tirreno Sharks and XIII della ghirlandina play only one match in the championship? And others with similar amount of regular season matches.
Where is Parma RL, Padova 555 RL and Melma Silea RL from 2012? Where is clear evidence from all Central and North East matches and teams from the last three years?

In 2002 (with origins to 1995), FIRL initiated its movement in Italy, after 11 years the federation has a championship (North) with 1-3 rounds each of the three conferences before finals for 8-10 clubs.
In 2010, another federation (FIRFL) began its domestic activity (but went independent early) and now have a 9 clubs with three conferences (North, Central & South) in their championship with 3-6 rounds per conference. 56 total affiliated clubs spread across three tiers.

 

I CAN give credit to both sides to having some youth and women's league work

 

There seems to be “mixed messages” coming from FIRL people with a recent press release saying why didn’t we have a member watch their games and why didn’t have any players in the European Shield. Whilst, have been told it would be against a constitution to pick players from two different competitions, perhaps different rules for USA Tomahawks picking players from two different competitions?
 

 

NATIONAL SQUAD

Where is the reflection in strong domestic development? Opportunities for more domestic players? Loyalty??
It isn't a reflection of the real Italian Rugby League movement

 

It was stated there would be a training camp  before the RLWC in response to rl fans criticism about the RLWC ITALIAN SQUAD LAUNCH IN SYDNEY and I actually thought that was a good idea. This is no longer the case and is in Sydney.....

Hence very limited exposure in Italy.

 

FIRL will have Australian sponsor's (along with the large fundraising) for the RLWC campaign, so without the Australian members would be unable to go. 

 

 

I think anyone can say the Australian-Italian FIRL members and Italian community in Australia have obvious strong worth (particularly to fundraising etc) and in particularly Kelly Rolleston in the NW comp (ive heard positive things).

 

 

 

Simply, the leadership led from the one man at the top based in Italy (Padova) itself, is NOT a reflection of a strong movement. Big issues coming from him this year is not Transparency nor honesty! (but not willing to discuss any)

 

 






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