Jump to content


Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD - THE GRAND FINALS ISSUE - OUT 17 OCT OR DOWNLOAD IT NOW!
Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Club Call


  • Please log in to reply
168 replies to this topic

#121 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,230 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

I've nothing against Huddersfield, but the Challenge Cup has always struck me as having the greater proportion of neutrals than GFs which are dominated more by supporters of the teams in question. For example, I was at both of those Huddersfield CC finals as I make an annual trip to London irrespective of who gets there (as do many). However I would not attend a GF that doesn't involve Wigan and noticed less neutrals when Wigan have been fortunate enough to get there. Just an observation, not trolling, but feel free to go off at the deep end defending any perceived slight or otherwise on your club as you usually do anyway.

 

My perception of the GF is that it attracts a lot of neutrals, but it doesn't particularly attract none regular RL fans which the CC Final certainly does, and even more so it seems over the last couple of years.



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#122 longboard

longboard
  • Coach
  • 2,453 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

My perception of the GF is that it attracts a lot of neutrals, but it doesn't particularly attract none regular RL fans which the CC Final certainly does, and even more so it seems over the last couple of years.

 

My extensive quantitative research on this in my local pub and cricket club has revealed that GF is attracting neutrals and even people who have never been to a professional rugby game before. The people who are in the latter category, to whom I have spoken, who were mainly soccer and/or cricket fans, have all said how much they have enjoyed the matches, the occasions, the atmosphere and the fact that fans can mix, have a bit of banter, and drink without a load of aggro. I guess that a lot of people like big events even if they don't know a great deal about the sport they are watching, cf games at Twickers etc.

 

Reasons to be cheerful about RL, 1,2,3 ...



#123 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,230 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:50 PM

My extensive quantitative research on this in my local pub and cricket club has revealed that GF is attracting neutrals and even people who have never been to a professional rugby game before. The people who are in the latter category, to whom I have spoken, who were mainly soccer and/or cricket fans, have all said how much they have enjoyed the matches, the occasions, the atmosphere and the fact that fans can mix, have a bit of banter, and drink without a load of aggro. I guess that a lot of people like big events even if they don't know a great deal about the sport they are watching, cf games at Twickers etc.

 

Reasons to be cheerful about RL, 1,2,3 ...

 

I'm not saying that the GF doesn't attract the none RL supporter, I am saying its obvious at the CCF that it does as you come across (in my case anyway) a lot more.



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#124 longboard

longboard
  • Coach
  • 2,453 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:02 PM

I guess it is about building the appeal of the GF as a big event to neutrals and non RL followers. Not a bad time of year for such an occasion also...



#125 LoinerDave

LoinerDave
  • Players
  • 23 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:04 PM

Can't help thinkin that hudds have been a bit hard done to. Three Thursday games, for the league leaders?! Not much of a reward for finishing top is it?

#126 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,580 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

Can't help thinkin that hudds have been a bit hard done to. Three Thursday games, for the league leaders?! Not much of a reward for finishing top is it?

They get seven days between matches and an extra day recovery more than their GF opponents if they beat Warrington. Where's the hardship?

rldfsignature.jpg


#127 LoinerDave

LoinerDave
  • Players
  • 23 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

I was thinkin more about the fans. They get slated on here regularly for their poor attendance. And I can't help thinkin that Thursday night rugby doesn't help their cause at all. Or anybody's really.

#128 longboard

longboard
  • Coach
  • 2,453 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:20 PM

They get seven days between matches and an extra day recovery more than their GF opponents if they beat Warrington. Where's the hardship?

 

The "hardship" was in the scheduling of the first play off game on a Thursday, after the last regular season weekend, which put the coaching and playing staff in an invidious position. Obviously, it wasn't sh*t or bust, but it could have been organised differently.



#129 chuffer

chuffer
  • Coach
  • 3,665 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

Tbf although I don't mind the thurs night games I can't help but feel that the play off semis should be on a weekend

#130 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,580 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:11 AM

I was thinkin more about the fans. They get slated on here regularly for their poor attendance. And I can't help thinkin that Thursday night rugby doesn't help their cause at all. Or anybody's really.

Sorry mate, I thought you meant from the players' perspective.

rldfsignature.jpg


#131 fetlar

fetlar
  • Twitter
  • 49 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:29 AM

Warrington's decision has made the "front" page of the online Telegraph this morning...



#132 Ant

Ant
  • Coach
  • 3,177 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:39 AM

That's the only reason to have the clubcall so at least it's worked in that respect

#133 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,115 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:13 AM

I think on the face of it Club call is a terrible idea but I think it might accidently turn into something good. It certainly has got people talking

#134 Southstander13

Southstander13
  • Coach
  • 1,277 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:04 AM

I think on the face of it Club call is a terrible idea but I think it might accidently turn into something good. It certainly has got people talking

 

Thats what it was supposed to do so its not really an accident. Its just taken a few years for anyone not to pick the lowest ranked team left. This is the first year I think its been a hugely difficult decision but its generated publicity and got people talking so this week already has another edge to it with Hudds having an additional motivation to turn over Warrington now.



#135 Mistress_Marlowe

Mistress_Marlowe
  • Coach
  • 3,699 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:50 AM

I read in 'The Guardian' this morning that the RFL may have paid clubs £5k to ensure a good turnout for the televised decision yesterday, plus and extra £5k to Wire for hosting it.

I can perhaps understand paying expenses, but surely that figure is way beyond reasonable. Clubs have a duty to be there and shouldn't need financial incentives.

They may take the £10k back off of Wire though by way of a fine for Smith not turning up.

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. ~ Oscar Wilde


#136 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,115 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:55 AM

Thats what it was supposed to do so its not really an accident. Its just taken a few years for anyone not to pick the lowest ranked team left. This is the first year I think its been a hugely difficult decision but its generated publicity and got people talking so this week already has another edge to it with Hudds having an additional motivation to turn over Warrington now.

I agree with you. I just mean that despite everyone saying it was ridiculous and a gimmick, it has definitely increased talk. ...which as you say it was designed to do. Could it in fact build up a mini grudge league of its own? (Assuming it is still here)

#137 Southstander13

Southstander13
  • Coach
  • 1,277 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:14 AM

I agree with you. I just mean that despite everyone saying it was ridiculous and a gimmick, it has definitely increased talk. ...which as you say it was designed to do. Could it in fact build up a mini grudge league of its own? (Assuming it is still here)

 

I quite like it although I think id prefer to be picked than to do the picking. It really does, through no real fault of your own, give added motivation to the opposition.

 

In previous years this has been kept to a minimum with teams saying they are picking the lowest ranked team left etc but its still used as motivation. This year its gone into overdrive and its been great and a real talking point!



#138 Bleep1673

Bleep1673
  • Coach
  • 3,430 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

And I can't help thinkin that Thursday night rugby doesn't help their cause at all. Or anybody's really.

It Helps Sky fill a slot when there is usually no football going on that they can cover
Swinton RLFC est 1866 - Supplying England with players when most of your clubs were in nappies

#139 bewareshadows

bewareshadows
  • Coach
  • 1,084 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 12:16 PM

In terms of club call as a tactical option, I think Wire have done the right thing.

 

Huddersfield if you take the league table are the clear leaders in the competition. You can start using theories and things like playoff experience and game intensity, but anyone who has seen moneyball will tell you that it's mainly just people guessing. The only thing that does matter is the raw data.  This year the Raw data suggests Huddersfield are the favourites to win as they have been the most consistent side in intense games and easy games over the season.

 

Given that information, the question is what do you do with it? 

 

For me if you are a side that thinks they can win the competition you want to make the final more in your favour.

If you are a team that is not confident of winning then you want the easiest route to the final.

 

The easiest route to the final given the choice of the 2 teams is Leeds, they are carrying injuries and have just had a humdinger of a game.

However if you want to make the final easier to win, you let Leeds go and take Huddersfield on home turf, were 90% of the crowd will be backing you and giving the ref greif and applying pressure to the away side.

 

Ref's may try to be neutral, but come on home advantage does have an impact on the odd call.  Even if it's just persuading them to make the right call on a forward, rather than letting it go.

 

Take your biggest threat on home turf, rather than in a final where it's pretty even.

 

I  think Saints made this mistake a few years back when we had club call.  We took Huddersfield as it was clearly the easier route to the final.  But for me we should have took Wigan.  In the final Wigan won the game in minutes on a wide open pitch with our players flagging we did not stand a chance.  Had we taken them at home, the very last game at KR, with fans pressurising the ref and players on a narrower pitch it would not have been so easy for them.

 

For me the question is about the team picking, is making the final the achivement or do you want to win the thing.


Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#140 Ant

Ant
  • Coach
  • 3,177 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:24 PM

Most sensible post ever.