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Club Call


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#141 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:31 PM

In terms of club call as a tactical option, I think Wire have done the right thing.

 

Huddersfield if you take the league table are the clear leaders in the competition. You can start using theories and things like playoff experience and game intensity, but anyone who has seen moneyball will tell you that it's mainly just people guessing. The only thing that does matter is the raw data.  This year the Raw data suggests Huddersfield are the favourites to win as they have been the most consistent side in intense games and easy games over the season.

 

Given that information, the question is what do you do with it? 

 

For me if you are a side that thinks they can win the competition you want to make the final more in your favour.

If you are a team that is not confident of winning then you want the easiest route to the final.

 

The easiest route to the final given the choice of the 2 teams is Leeds, they are carrying injuries and have just had a humdinger of a game.

However if you want to make the final easier to win, you let Leeds go and take Huddersfield on home turf, were 90% of the crowd will be backing you and giving the ref greif and applying pressure to the away side.

 

Ref's may try to be neutral, but come on home advantage does have an impact on the odd call.  Even if it's just persuading them to make the right call on a forward, rather than letting it go.

 

Take your biggest threat on home turf, rather than in a final where it's pretty even.

 

I  think Saints made this mistake a few years back when we had club call.  We took Huddersfield as it was clearly the easier route to the final.  But for me we should have took Wigan.  In the final Wigan won the game in minutes on a wide open pitch with our players flagging we did not stand a chance.  Had we taken them at home, the very last game at KR, with fans pressurising the ref and players on a narrower pitch it would not have been so easy for them.

 

For me the question is about the team picking, is making the final the achivement or do you want to win the thing.

 

That's superb analysis.

One thing I would say is that this year it has worked in Wigan's favour, in that there is so little between the 2 options, but only one team has given another "motivation".



#142 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

A football fan in my local pub about 2 hours ago said he had seen something about "club call" on Sky news and asked me to explain what it was all about. I told him how it worked and he just couldn't believe it. Others joined in the conversation asking if it brought extra money into the game etc. I just told them that Rugby League was the greatest game on earth but its run by fools and it is living well beyond its means! (Well, at Super League level anyway). Most people in my local pub would struggle to name a team that they don't see on tv, except maybe Swinton and Leigh because they are fairly local.

#143 MrFussy

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:40 PM

In terms of club call as a tactical option, I think Wire have done the right thing.

 

Huddersfield if you take the league table are the clear leaders in the competition. You can start using theories and things like playoff experience and game intensity, but anyone who has seen moneyball will tell you that it's mainly just people guessing. The only thing that does matter is the raw data.  This year the Raw data suggests Huddersfield are the favourites to win as they have been the most consistent side in intense games and easy games over the season.

 

Given that information, the question is what do you do with it? 

 

For me if you are a side that thinks they can win the competition you want to make the final more in your favour.

If you are a team that is not confident of winning then you want the easiest route to the final.

 

The easiest route to the final given the choice of the 2 teams is Leeds, they are carrying injuries and have just had a humdinger of a game.

However if you want to make the final easier to win, you let Leeds go and take Huddersfield on home turf, were 90% of the crowd will be backing you and giving the ref greif and applying pressure to the away side.

 

Ref's may try to be neutral, but come on home advantage does have an impact on the odd call.  Even if it's just persuading them to make the right call on a forward, rather than letting it go.

 

Take your biggest threat on home turf, rather than in a final where it's pretty even.

 

I  think Saints made this mistake a few years back when we had club call.  We took Huddersfield as it was clearly the easier route to the final.  But for me we should have took Wigan.  In the final Wigan won the game in minutes on a wide open pitch with our players flagging we did not stand a chance.  Had we taken them at home, the very last game at KR, with fans pressurising the ref and players on a narrower pitch it would not have been so easy for them.

 

For me the question is about the team picking, is making the final the achivement or do you want to win the thing.

That's a great read. I completely agree about Saints messing up with the club call in 2010.

 

I would contend your post a little bit though.

 

Going solely off this season then the data certainly does suggest that Huddersfield are the biggest threat in the competition. But you have to balance that against the fact that Leeds still have the core of the same side which has won this trophy 5 times in the last 6 years, data which should never be overlooked. As such which team should we consider to be the bigger threat? For me it's Leeds without a shadow of a doubt. I think Huddersfield have done superbly this year and deserve everyone's respect, but I just can't look past the track record which Leeds boast.

 

Therefore, whilst I absolutely agree with your logic that it's best to pick the biggest threat now, while Huddersfield have been the better team on the evidence of this season, it would still be Leeds that I'd be wanting to put out as soon as possible. I just can't see how a Grand Final against any other team could possibly be a harder prospect than playing the Rhinos.

 

I wonder which way Warrington viewed the situation when they made their choice...



#144 Johnoco

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:42 PM

A football fan in my local pub about 2 hours ago said he had seen something about "club call" on Sky news and asked me to explain what it was all about. I told him how it worked and he just couldn't believe it. Others joined in the conversation asking if it brought extra money into the game etc. I just told them that Rugby League was the greatest game on earth but its run by fools and it is living well beyond its means! (Well, at Super League level anyway). Most people in my local pub would struggle to name a team that they don't see on tv, except maybe Swinton and Leigh because they are fairly local.

Ask the football fan what he thinks about only teams spending a billion pounds being able to have a chance of winning the PL. Ask him what he thinks of Ronaldo and Bales wages while you are at it.

#145 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

That's a great read. I completely agree about Saints messing up with the club call in 2010.

 

I would contend your post a little bit though.

 

Going solely off this season then the data certainly does suggest that Huddersfield are the biggest threat in the competition. But you have to balance that against the fact that Leeds still have the core of the same side which has won this trophy 5 times in the last 6 years, data which should never be overlooked. As such which team should we consider to be the bigger threat? For me it's Leeds without a shadow of a doubt. I think Huddersfield have done superbly this year and deserve everyone's respect, but I just can't look past the track record which Leeds boast.

 

Therefore, whilst I absolutely agree with your logic that it's best to pick the biggest threat now, while Huddersfield have been the better team on the evidence of this season, it would still be Leeds that I'd be wanting to put out as soon as possible. I just can't see how a Grand Final against any other team could possibly be a harder prospect than playing the Rhinos.

 

I wonder which way Warrington viewed the situation when they made their choice...

I'm sure I saw a quote from Adrian Morley which went along the lines of " We think we have more chance of beating Huddersfield"


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#146 Dave T

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:53 PM

I'm sure I saw a quote from Adrian Morley which went along the lines of " We think we have more chance of beating Huddersfield"

Morley's quote:

 

"The board thinks we've got a better chance of getting a victory over Huddersfield," said Morley, who will be making his final home appearance for the club ahead of his move to Salford City Reds. "We've got a very good record against them.

"We've got to concentrate on preparing well and doing our jobs. You can't look back at past records because that will come back to bite you on the backside.

"It's a different game - there's a lot more at stake than there was in the other encounters - so we're going to prepare well and hopefully put a performance in that's worthy of us getting to Manchester."



#147 Just Browny

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

Ask the football fan what he thinks about only teams spending a billion pounds being able to have a chance of winning the PL. Ask him what he thinks of Ronaldo and Bales wages while you are at it.


He'll struggle, because the 'football fan' doesn't exist.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#148 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:00 PM

Morley's quote:

 

"The board thinks we've got a better chance of getting a victory over Huddersfield," said Morley, who will be making his final home appearance for the club ahead of his move to Salford City Reds. "We've got a very good record against them.

"We've got to concentrate on preparing well and doing our jobs. You can't look back at past records because that will come back to bite you on the backside.

"It's a different game - there's a lot more at stake than there was in the other encounters - so we're going to prepare well and hopefully put a performance in that's worthy of us getting to Manchester."

Cheers.


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#149 Just Browny

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:06 PM

Cheers.


Anything more to add? Like how your supposed 'quote' was misleading and false?

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#150 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

Morley actually said "we have all been laughing at the Giants, and couldn't believe our luck when they were an option. Frankly, we may as well all go on the lash all week - we'd still beat them. Brough for England? Scotland, more like..." and that's a FACT.

#151 Dave T

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

A football fan in my local pub about 2 hours ago said he had seen something about "club call" on Sky news and asked me to explain what it was all about. I told him how it worked and he just couldn't believe it. Others joined in the conversation asking if it brought extra money into the game etc. I just told them that Rugby League was the greatest game on earth but its run by fools and it is living well beyond its means! (Well, at Super League level anyway). Most people in my local pub would struggle to name a team that they don't see on tv, except maybe Swinton and Leigh because they are fairly local.

So who was it who was negative towards it, you or them? It reads as though the RL 'fan' had the bigger issue.

 

What's your point about not being able to name teams not on TV, I suspect that is the same for all sports that people don't follow.

 

I could name very few RU, Ice Hockey, Basketball teams etc. other than the teams I will have stumbled across on tv or who are very local to me. No difference.



#152 SE4Wire

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

They may take the £10k back off of Wire though by way of a fine for Smith not turning up.


More like pay us an extra £10k for him not turning up. Eddie Hemmings mentioned it at every opportunity and the whole "coach is boycotting it" helps publicity. Controversy sells papers.

#153 Dave T

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:19 PM

I actually think Poching has the official title of First Team Coach, and he was there. Smith is technically Director of Rugby Operations or something similar.



#154 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:19 PM

I'm sure I saw a quote from Adrian Morley which went along the lines of " We think we have more chance of beating Huddersfield"

 

 

Morley's quote:

 

"The board thinks we've got a better chance of getting a victory over Huddersfield," said Morley, who will be making his final home appearance for the club ahead of his move to Salford City Reds. "We've got a very good record against them.

"We've got to concentrate on preparing well and doing our jobs. You can't look back at past records because that will come back to bite you on the backside.

"It's a different game - there's a lot more at stake than there was in the other encounters - so we're going to prepare well and hopefully put a performance in that's worthy of us getting to Manchester."

 

 

Anything more to add? Like how your supposed 'quote' was misleading and false?

I didn't say my quote was exact,I said it went along the lines of.Someone was actually helpful enough to post the actual quote.Maybe you could have done that.


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#155 SE4Wire

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

A football fan in my local pub about 2 hours ago said he had seen something about "club call" on Sky news and asked me to explain what it was all about. I told him how it worked and he just couldn't believe it. Others joined in the conversation asking if it brought extra money into the game etc. I just told them that Rugby League was the greatest game on earth but its run by fools and it is living well beyond its means! (Well, at Super League level anyway). Most people in my local pub would struggle to name a team that they don't see on tv, except maybe Swinton and Leigh because they are fairly local.


I know, the RFL got an idea which was the ONLY story on the Sky Sports News scrolling bar for a good 10-15 mins. Then people who don't follow the game are interested and start trying to find out about the game.

It's a farce, the RFL should do more to publicise the game...

#156 Dave T

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:27 PM

I know, the RFL got an idea which was the ONLY story on the Sky Sports News scrolling bar for a good 10-15 mins. Then people who don't follow the game are interested and start trying to find out about the game.

It's a farce, the RFL should do more to publicise the game...

Don't worry though, as soon as they showed interest there was a RL 'fan' to put them straight that RL is $hiite



#157 Padge

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

We seem to now have the Four Football Fans of the Apocalypse in our midst, you know the guys, every time a negative quote is required they mysteriously appear in the pub.



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#158 gingerjon

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Don't worry though, as soon as they showed interest there was a RL 'fan' to put them straight that RL is $hiite

 

This.

 

Always, always.  This.


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#159 Mistress_Marlowe

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:59 PM

More like pay us an extra £10k for him not turning up. Eddie Hemmings mentioned it at every opportunity and the whole "coach is boycotting it" helps publicity. Controversy sells papers.

Your conspiracy theory is wrong:
http://gu.com/p/3jx6j

Edited by Mistress_Marlowe, 23 September 2013 - 08:00 PM.

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#160 Johnoco

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

We seem to now have the Four Football Fans of the Apocalypse in our midst, you know the guys, every time a negative quote is required they mysteriously appear in the pub.

They related to Jerry and the 4 Kiwis of the apocalypse?