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Wakey Trinity - bright new future


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#1 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

Went to a packed meeting at Wakey tonight organised by the supporters trust. Absolutely heaving, so plenty of interest from Wakey fans.

New board have promised to run the club properly and will not allow expenditure to exceed income. Both the new chairman and finance guy have put their houses up as security for a loan from the RFL. Neither have any more money to put into the club, and neither intend to lose their houses!

Of the current 4000 season ticket holders, 1000 have already renewed for 2014. Club are budgeting on 3000. Any extra increases the budget for Agar for 2014.

Focus needs to be on producing our own players. Agar has been insistent that the club put proper youth structure in place and the 2013 U16s is the best we've had in years. Normally Wakey get 4 or 5 of the youngstes they aim to sign. This year they signed 14 out of the 19 U15s that they targeted for next seasons U16s. Word is out that the Wakey Academy is now delivering top quality coaching, so local lads no longer need to go to Leeds or Wigan or elsewhere to make it as a pro.

New board have brought in Kath Hetherington as consultant Chief Executive. Richard Agar has signed a new three year deal to stay at the club, despite offers from two other SL clubs.

Tim Smith was sold for £70k to Salford and an immediate saving on 3 month's wages. Smith had been negotiating with Salford. Amor went for £50k as he wanted to go to Saints and said he would not be extending his contract beyond 2014, so if Wakey could get some cash for him, he would go now. Saints initial offer was £30k. Huddersfield made an offer, but Amor only wanted to go to Saints.

Wakey salary budget was £1.2m in 2013, the lowest in SL. Belle Vue would cost £1.6m to buy back off the Bank of Ireland and annual rent is £120k. Move to Newmarket is still on and a major application for a £42m freezer distribution centre is up before planning on 26th Sept. This will create access to the site and will put in 60% of the roads and infrastructure needed for the new stadium.

Wakey lost £1.2m in the first year under Andrew Glover, £0.5m last year and expect to lose another £0.5m this year. Directors are owed £1.7m, which can't be withdrawn in the short-term, part of the deal of the RFL loan.

Wakey are expecting a scrap next season, but think Agar can put together a squad that can compete. If it isn't good enough, then so be it. Wakey will survive. Michael Carter, the new chair was adamant that he will not spend what Wakey have not got, even if the fans get on his back if the team struggles in 2014.

Most people in the room were supportive of the approach and of the opinion that selling Smith & Amor was not the best, but better to cash in now, rather than let them go for free later.

Carter felt obliged to allow Chris Tuson to back out of his contract as he was sold a vision for the club that is different to reality, however Wakey still want him to come and he is just the sort of bloke we'll need for the scrap next year. He fits within the budget Wakey have set for next year.

#2 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:17 PM

Good luck Wakey my 2nd club
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#3 MrPosh

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:18 PM

Good luck. I hope it is a bright future for Wakey, but I can't see how what you've posted equates to that.
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#4 Larry the Leit

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:28 PM

Why is Elston still there?

If Tuson arrives then he'll be a hero with the fans. I fear Kirmond will be gone.
The Unicorn is not a Goose,

#5 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:32 PM

Good luck.

I hope it is a bright future for Wakey, but I can't see how what you've posted equates to that.


In 5 years time we will have a sustainable club, rather than being back where we were tonight, skint and in debt. Wakey can afford a SL team, it ain't that expensive, but it will take lots of small steps to get there, not one big jump, which has been the strategy of the board for as long as I can remember. The new board are planning to rebuild the club over the long-term, which is what we have been crying out for. Leeds are a good example. Think where they were at the start of SL and before and where they are now. Steady progress built on a long-term vision brings success.

#6 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

Why is Elston still there?
If Tuson arrives then he'll be a hero with the fans. I fear Kirmond will be gone.


I think Elston is there because he still has a contract. Sack him, and they go to industrial tribunal. Keith Mason anyone? There are now 3 people above him. Mrs Elston is no longer there though!

#7 daz39

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

Didnt the last guy make loads of promises about no money worries not too long ago too ? hope this one actually DOES what he says !



#8 Dave T

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

How can they only spend money they have banked? If that is the case I assume they have nobody contracted for next year yet.
Guaranteed income probably isnt enough to set your whole budget from, you will need to work with forecasts. It is a normal thing for all businesses to do and Wakey wont be any diffeterent.
If crowds go down snd go out in thr first round of the cup, income will be down and times will be hard.
Didnt Halifax take the approach of not spending what they couldnt afford and just put the worst SL team in history on the field.

Genuine good luck to the club, the way this bloke is making it sound so easy worries me a touch.

#9 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:03 PM

How can they only spend money they have banked? If that is the case I assume they have nobody contracted for next year yet.
Guaranteed income probably isnt enough to set your whole budget from, you will need to work with forecasts. It is a normal thing for all businesses to do and Wakey wont be any diffeterent.
If crowds go down snd go out in thr first round of the cup, income will be down and times will be hard.
Didnt Halifax take the approach of not spending what they couldnt afford and just put the worst SL team in history on the field.
Genuine good luck to the club, the way this bloke is making it sound so easy worries me a touch.


Not talking about only money already banked. As you say, working on a forecast is normal business practice, but Wakey's forecasts have all been to cock in recent years. Expecting to make the play-offs is daft for a club like Wakey, but that is what the budgets have been based on. Planning for 3000 season ticket holders in 2014 when we had 4000 in 2013 seems sensible to me. The last lot would have budgeted on 5000!!

Agar's budget has been revised down 200k on what he was told by the last Board. Again that seems sensible to me.

#10 Dave T

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

Not talking about only money already banked. As you say, working on a forecast is normal business practice, but Wakey's forecasts have all been to cock in recent years. Expecting to make the play-offs is daft for a club like Wakey, but that is what the budgets have been based on. Planning for 3000 season ticket holders in 2014 when we had 4000 in 2013 seems sensible to me. The last lot would have budgeted on 5000!!

Agar's budget has been revised down 200k on what he was told by the last Board. Again that seems sensible to me.

so based on the £500k loss this year, are we likely to see cost cutting to this value?
could that lead to lower crowds.
If the budget is based on 3k season tickets then they are ignoring around half of their match income arent they? I assume their budget is not based on 3k crowds.

#11 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:29 PM

so based on the £500k loss this year, are we likely to see cost cutting to this value?
could that lead to lower crowds.
If the budget is based on 3k season tickets then they are ignoring around half of their match income arent they? I assume their budget is not based on 3k crowds.


Doubt they are planning on crowds of 3k. Prices have gone up for tickets. They have cut costs. Renegotiated lease on shop & let some staff go as examples. Don't know exactly how all the figures will stack up, he's only been in the job for 3 weeks, but he's clearly determined to keep costs under control. The number of people getting in for free was one of the issued raised tonight too.

#12 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:54 PM

Didnt Halifax take the approach of not spending what they couldnt afford and just put the worst SL team in history on the field

 

.Halifax did try this alongside trying to pay the debts Nigel Wood and friends had previously built up. As you said it ended in disaster as many fans and sponsors had already walked away due to the attitude of Wood and co. The crowds had dropped to sub 2500 and with such a weak team and then relegation the writing was on the wall. Fax never got rid of the debts Wood and co ´built and it was the debt the new board inherited that saw them bring out the buckets a few years later. Halifax have never recovered from this.

 

Wakefield must be careful. Loans and wonderful dreams are short term. Sadly the reality is when you have a big debt as Wakefield seemingly have, then they will never move forward on or off the field. I dont doubt the board at Wakefield are sincere. The reality is they are just plugging holes which will result in a massive wave which has the potential to take everything that Wakefield Trinity is. Wakefield are set to lose around 0.5 Million the Op said next year,Directors are owed £1.7m plus whatever else. These loans/Debts have to be payed off sometime. That for me is going to be years if at all when you look at how other clubs have done with such debts. I wish them well but for me I cant see Wakefield ever getting rid of taht debt unless a money man comes in- something they dont have. For me it comes across as hoping and living in a fantasy world. 

 

Its OK to say we will build around our academy and have a low salary base. The problem is that big clubs will outbid wakefield for any top quality lads. And any decent lads will end up going elsewhere like Amor has done. With a new SL system coming, Wakefield could easily end up staying along time in the SL 2nd Division and possibly be like Halifax, Leigh, Fev and be mostly part time. The future painted by the Op is one for me off living a bit in fantasy world. I think sadly the reality will hurt them more than they expect



#13 OMEGA

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:40 PM

Wakefield are approx £400k in debt none of which is to the HMRC and none of which is the subject of CCJs.
Moves are already afoot to clear that debt and cost cutting has already taken place to ensure the business washes its face and doesn't lose another pound.

The biggest casualty of balancing the books is the playing budget which has been set at £1.2 million, T Smith, K Amor and possibly Ben Cockayne look like being the major losses with Wilkes, Mariano and some fringe squad players also leaving after their contracts expired. Based on frugal projections, the business will even itself out and with 3,000 season tickets sold the playing budget won't be affected, less than 3,000 will see the budget cut, more than 3,000 will see it increased. If the team we can afford cant cut it in SL then Wakefield Trinity will be relegated but will be at a level that the club can afford, however the club will fight tooth n nail to make the 12!

Danny Kirmond is going nowhere and more importantly does not want to go anywhere!
That said, if a club came in and offered a stupidly ridiculous amount of money then the club are not in a position to dismiss it but the operative words there are 'stupidly ridiculous'. A normal offer, even a good offer will not be considered at all.

At present the team lines up as:
Mathers, Fox, Collis, Smith, Lyne, Sykes, Wildie, Poore, Aiton, Raleigh, Kirmond, Tuson, Washbrook subs Kaye, Goulding, Trout, Tautai, Lauitiiti, Anakin, Walshaw,
Agar is currently in Australia looking for a halfback.

That doesn't look like a team that'll be easy to beat especially now that the uncertainty is gone and their wages are secured.

#14 The Parksider

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:07 AM

New board have promised to run the club properly and will not allow expenditure to exceed income. Focus needs to be on producing our own players.

Move to Newmarket is still on

Wakey lost £1.2m in the first year under Andrew Glover, £0.5m last year and expect to lose another £0.5m this year. Directors are owed £1.7m, which can't be withdrawn in the short-term, part of the deal of the RFL loan.

Wakey are expecting a scrap next season, but think Agar can put together a squad that can compete. If it isn't good enough, then so be it. Wakey will survive.

 

Thank you for your report. Do the directors who are owed money intend having it back?

 

I found it very interesting what Lizzy said about Halifax and for me I'd be worried a very long struggle may lie ahead. I believe the way out isn't cutting your cloth (although you have to do it) because cuts don't generate growth, but investment in the club and that would best work with Newmarket.

 

It has to be said that now Wakefield are staring down the barrel of another downturn in fortunes, Castleford have become a nursery for Superleague clubs, and although cashed up Featherstone have money can they find the fans as in the same way fans aren't interested in watching a merged club, Wakey and Cas people may not be interested in watching Fev instead. Can they find the areas top young players as the best will still eye the trophy clubs.

 

Over 20,000 great RL fans and a junior scene to match that of Wigan, but I fear the best of those resources simply isn't being made to the detriment of the game. Dragged down by history.


Edited by The Parksider, 17 September 2013 - 06:10 AM.


#15 Blind side johnny

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:16 AM

Thank you for your report. Do the directors who are owed money intend having it back?

 

I found it very interesting what Lizzy said about Halifax and for me I'd be worried a very long struggle may lie ahead. I believe the way out isn't cutting your cloth (although you have to do it) because cuts don't generate growth, but investment in the club and that would best work with Newmarket.

 

It has to be said that now Wakefield are staring down the barrel of another downturn in fortunes, Castleford have become a nursery for Superleague clubs, and although cashed up Featherstone have money can they find the fans as in the same way fans aren't interested in watching a merged club, Wakey and Cas people may not be interested in watching Fev instead. Can they find the areas top young players as the best will still eye the trophy clubs.

 

Over 20,000 great RL fans and a junior scene to match that of Wigan, but I fear the best of those resources simply isn't being made to the detriment of the game. Dragged down by history.

 

 

So are you saying that a merger and a new ground is the realistic way forward Parky?


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#16 The Parksider

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:19 AM

So are you saying that a merger and a new ground is the realistic way forward Parky?

 

No sir not merger that's all over I think. IMHO The realistic way is for the club to press on with Newmarket and push for new investors once that comes along as I think if there are people who want to invest they may be hanging around waiting for the new ground, and maybe a new start. Who wants to invest in Wakey at Belle Vue? Who wants to invest in debt.

 

I'd just hope in 10 years we see Wakey as the areas big club at Newmarket taking on the Leeds and Wigans and winning. A quality ground serving the biggest slice of a divided area would be the best option for investors.


Edited by The Parksider, 17 September 2013 - 06:22 AM.


#17 Dave T

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:36 AM

Doubt they are planning on crowds of 3k. Prices have gone up for tickets. They have cut costs. Renegotiated lease on shop & let some staff go as examples. Don't know exactly how all the figures will stack up, he's only been in the job for 3 weeks, but he's clearly determined to keep costs under control. The number of people getting in for free was one of the issued raised tonight too.

thanks mate. My main challenge around the 3k and 4k is that ultimately this number isnt necessarily the biggest issue. If the budget is for 3k season tickets but 5k pay on the gate then that could be worse than last year.
Anyway, lets see what happens, good luck I hope he is true to his word and that fans are patient and understanding.

#18 Old Frightful

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:00 AM

Two SL clubs have made offers to Agar? 

 

:blink:


                Lee Radford rang me the other week....I knew Hull FC were a bit desperate but I had no idea it had got that bad.


#19 snapski

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:14 AM

Is it only me that sees this as Wakey finally only spending what they have, rather than a bright new future

#20 Futtocks

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:31 AM



Is it only me that sees this as Wakey finally only spending what they have, rather than a bright new future

By the standards of Trinity's recent history, that is a bright new future.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)





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