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20/09/13 - SL Prelim SF: Leeds Rhinos v St Helens KO 8pm (Sky Sports)


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209 replies to this topic

Poll: Who will win? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Leeds Rhinos by 13 points or more (3 votes [10.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.34%

  2. Leeds Rhinos by 7 to 12 points (8 votes [27.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.59%

  3. Leeds Rhinos by 1 to 6 points (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

  4. St Helens by 1 to 6 points (6 votes [20.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  5. St Helens by 7 to 12 points (7 votes [24.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  6. St Helens by 13 points or more (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

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#201 Ant

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:24 PM

Either way Saints back line looks pretty good next year

#202 MrFussy

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:48 PM

Either way Saints back line looks pretty good next year

Is Matt Dawson any good? It's been rumoured that we've signed him from you but I don't know how much truth is in it and I can't recall ever seeing him play.



#203 giwildgo

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:29 PM


Given that most of the team will be the same in 2014, you can hardly really be commenting 'on paper' can you? We will have the same backline, bar Meli, for example than we have had this year. Are you saying that backline does not look exciting or indeed good? Because it's not just one on paper; it has been seen in action on a number of occasions this year, including on TV. Do you not think that backline will be assisted by an actual 7, one who can do stuff like kick and organise, as opposed to a second rower who admits he's no halfback? It really isn't a case of 'on paper'. No matter how Walsh performs next season, he is a step up from what we have now simply because what we have now is nothing. Other than Walsh we are adding a couple of props. Again, we have had only a couple of players who are actually props this season and one has hardly played (and when he did he was entirely ineffective) so again, how can we be worse 'on paper' by having something we actually don't have this year, namely more than one effective prop?

I think you were clearly the 5th best team this season and even with a best case scenario of everything going your way, I don't see you climbing above 3rd. I've taken all things mentioned by you and others into account, but other than Lomax, I don't believe the back line is anywhere near as good as you think. It certainly isn't a match for Leeds or Warrington at least, and your pack and halves are nowhere near Huddersfield. You might finish above Wigan (in a down year) if all goes to plan for Saints, but that is a big if, given the false dawn of past imports and the possibility of injuries.

#204 Saintslass

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

I think you were clearly the 5th best team this season and even with a best case scenario of everything going your way, I don't see you climbing above 3rd. I've taken all things mentioned by you and others into account, but other than Lomax, I don't believe the back line is anywhere near as good as you think. It certainly isn't a match for Leeds or Warrington at least, and your pack and halves are nowhere near Huddersfield. You might finish above Wigan (in a down year) if all goes to plan for Saints, but that is a big if, given the false dawn of past imports and the possibility of injuries.

You wish. :D



#205 Saintslass

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:56 PM

I mean compared to having Meli and Soliola in your backs

Read the whole post not just the one sentence

Soliola has only ever played in our backline when we have been totally desperate due to injuries.  Although he has four on his back, he has played in the pack for 99.9% of his games with Saints.  He is too slow to be a centre, and a nightmare defensively in that position.

 

Meli's only strength is his strength.  He can't score acrobatic tries or tiptoe along the touchline or leg it (now) from one end of the field to another.  One thing we can guarantee though is that he will let us down in every important game (usually against Leeds) as indeed he did on Friday by not getting his man and by dropping the ball.  He always does it.  And I'll be glad when he is gone so that we won't have to worry about him always doing it in our next important matches.



#206 giwildgo

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:28 PM


You wish. :D

We'll see. I'm a realist unaffected by the rose tinted glasses affected by most fans. Happy to admit when I'm proved wrong, but will also gladly point out when I'm right. I'm pretty confident about the Saints stuff, respect your optimism, but think its a touch of overhyping and detachment from reality. For Saints to improve, they need teams above them to stand still or drop off. Only Wigan are realistic candidates to go backwards next season, but they also have a habit of proving doubters wrong and have arguably the best prospects in the league waiting to step up (only Leeds are close in my opinion).

Edited by giwildgo, 22 September 2013 - 06:29 PM.


#207 Saintslass

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:53 PM

We'll see. I'm a realist unaffected by the rose tinted glasses affected by most fans. Happy to admit when I'm proved wrong, but will also gladly point out when I'm right. I'm pretty confident about the Saints stuff, respect your optimism, but think its a touch of overhyping and detachment from reality. For Saints to improve, they need teams above them to stand still or drop off. Only Wigan are realistic candidates to go backwards next season, but they also have a habit of proving doubters wrong and have arguably the best prospects in the league waiting to step up (only Leeds are close in my opinion).

Overhyping to say that a team which has no halfbacks will be better for having a halfback and a team which has only one prop forward will be better for having three?  How is that overhyping?  And suggesting that we have a pacey backline when it is clear that we have a pacey backline (evidenced by our backline having pace) especially with the addition of a very pacey centre in Percival is overhyping how? 



#208 giwildgo

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:59 PM


Overhyping to say that a team which has no halfbacks will be better for having a halfback and a team which has only one prop forward will be better for having three? How is that overhyping? And suggesting that we have a pacey backline when it is clear that we have a pacey backline (evidenced by our backline having pace) especially with the addition of a very pacey centre in Percival is overhyping how?

Overhyping the possibility that those improvements and the overall quality of the team will be enough to bridge the gap to the current top sides. I've given my reasons why, nice to see you are optimistic for 2014, maybe we'll revisit this then.

#209 Saintslass

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:09 PM

Overhyping the possibility that those improvements and the overall quality of the team will be enough to bridge the gap to the current top sides. I've given my reasons why, nice to see you are optimistic for 2014, maybe we'll revisit this then.

I still don't see how me saying that those adjustments might see us back at the top as overhyping.  I didn't claim we would win anything or batter everyone around us or other ridiculous statements that would have indeed justified such an accusation.  Being 'back at the top' differentiates from being 'around the middle' which is where we have been this season, and in the process learned how to win without James Roby, an important achievement because no team should be a one man team and we were.



#210 Futtocks

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:53 PM

I think Saints will be looking at a couple of seasons to steady the ship, they need to find the right balance of players after a lot of changes.

 

Brown is probably good at riding a storm and getting the club through it and finding the right blend.

 

The problem is that he'll fail when he's weathered the storm and then doesn't know how to race. This much was evident at Huddersfield.

 

Wigan had the same with Nobby, then McGuire stepped in and the change was immense without a massive change in playing personnel.

 

After three years Saints will have the right players, but the wrong coach and then it will bye-bye Nathan.

Maguire went through the whole structure of the club in all sorts of areas and made sweeping changes. That has meant that the improvements from his time in charge are still bearing fruit for Wigan. I doubt Brown has been given the same level of powers.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)





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