Jump to content


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

playoff crowds


  • Please log in to reply
149 replies to this topic

#121 Mistress_Marlowe

Mistress_Marlowe
  • Coach
  • 3,696 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:11 PM


2013 SL attendances during the regular season are 10.4% down on last year.

(Snip)


A note on the Hull attendances: I am.not surprised in the dip in numbers. In 2002 our stadium was new and jobs were fairly easy to come by in Hull. Now, there are more than 100 fighting for every available job in the city. Simply, we're skint. It has affected season pass sales dramatically for both Hull clubs, so there is no wonder that play off attendance's are also down.

No, it doesn't explain everything, but it does explain a great deal in Hull's case, where the fan base continues to be comprised of the traditional working class which has been hardest hit by the economic catastrophe that has seen tens of thousands made redundant over the last few years.

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. ~ Oscar Wilde


#122 superten

superten
  • Coach
  • 364 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

super league needs to cut to ten team comp. Have a top four play off with 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd. To make things interesting at the bottom of the table if no relegation create a new super league cup where the top eight teams from season before qualify for a random knock out cup comp . every one knows the ten I would have so based on this season the table may have looked like this
1. Huddersfield
2. warrington
3. wigan
4. leeds

5. st Helens
6. hull fc
7. hull kr
8. Bradford

9.widnes
10. wakefield
so for the championship semis Huddersfield v leeds, warrington v wigan . Then next season super cup would see all but widnes and wakefield going into the hat for a random draw cup comp.
Chief Crazy Eagle

#123 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:34 PM

But did you get the 'Jim' quote?

Afraid not.

rldfsignature.jpg


#124 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,028 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

Afraid not.

It's a line from Blazing Saddles.

 

The Waco Kid, former gunslinger with a drinking habit is in jail and is asked his name by the new black sheriff, his reply is "Jim but most people call me... Jim"

 

This clip isn't the actual line but just after.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8ITqS2uTPD4

 

Meanwhile back on topic...



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#125 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

One of my favourite films too.

rldfsignature.jpg


#126 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,028 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:00 PM

One of my favourite films too.

See, we do have something in common.  ;)



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#127 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,980 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:00 PM

If I posted unreferenced material to back up my point I'd expect to be pulled up about it.

 

But you never post any research material Pom my good man which Padge did pull you up about.....



#128 Saintslass

Saintslass
  • Coach
  • 4,334 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:02 PM

A note on the Hull attendances: I am.not surprised in the dip in numbers. In 2002 our stadium was new and jobs were fairly easy to come by in Hull. Now, there are more than 100 fighting for every available job in the city. Simply, we're skint. It has affected season pass sales dramatically for both Hull clubs, so there is no wonder that play off attendance's are also down.

No, it doesn't explain everything, but it does explain a great deal in Hull's case, where the fan base continues to be comprised of the traditional working class which has been hardest hit by the economic catastrophe that has seen tens of thousands made redundant over the last few years.

Are Hull City's numbers down as well? 

 

Here in St Helens, our drop has consistently seen around 3000 missing from last season but that's easy to explain as last season was a serious blip upwards due to the new stadium factor.  Our crowds hadn't been that high for decades.  I think our average this season will be similar to our final year at Knowsley Road.  Perhaps a little lower given that we haven't sold out the Wigan and Warrington matches this season, largely due to them not turning up in the same numbers as previously.



#129 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

But you never post any research material Pom my good man which Padge did pull you up about.....

Totally irrelevant Parky. If I did I would. ;)

rldfsignature.jpg


#130 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,980 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

 

2013 SL attendances during the regular season are 10.4% down on last year.

 

SL Play-off attendances have been in decline for a while, and particularly so since the introduction of the Top 8 play-off format.

 

SL Play-Off Attendances (not including Grand Finals)

Top 8 Format (2009 to 2013) - Total attendance 363,479 from 38 play-off fixtures - Average: 9,565

Top 6 Format (2002 to 2008) - Total attendance 468,499 from 35 play-off fixtures - Average: 13,386

Top 5 Format (1998 to 2001) - Total attendance 248,342 from 20 play-off fixtures - Average: 12,417

 

SL Play-Off Attendances - comparison between same play-off fixtures under different formats.
Leeds V Wigan
2010: 13,693 (Top 8 format)
2008: 13,112 (Top 6 format)
2007: 16,112 (Top 6 format)
2004: 20,119 (Top 6 format)
2003: 17,264 (Top 6 format)
 
Wigan V Leeds
2012: 8,235 (Top 8 format)
2010: 9,987 (Top 8 format)
2002: 13,157 (Top 6 format)
1998: 12,941 (Top 5 format)
 
Leeds V Hull
2012: 9,075 (Top 8 format)
2002: 12,123 (Top 6 format)
 
Wigan V Castleford
2009: 8,689 (Top 8 format)
1999: 13,374 (Top 5 format)
 
Wigan V St Helens
2011: 12,893 (Top 8 format)
2004: 20,052 (Top 6 format)
2003: 21,790 (Top 6 format)
2001: 19,260 (Top 5 format)
 
St Helens V Wigan
2011: 9,421 (Top 8 format)
2009: 13,087 (Top 8 format)
2002: 15,100 (Top 6 format)
 
Warrington V Hull
2012: 7,323 (Top 8 format)
2005: 12,243 (Top 6 format)
 
Hull V Huddersfield
2012: 8,662 (Top 8 format)
2007: 12,140 (Top 6 format)
 
Leeds V St Helens
2013: 12,189 (Top 8 format)
1998: 13,233 (Top 5 format)

 

 

 Thank you for the figures, appreciated......



#131 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,028 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:09 PM

Are Hull City's numbers down as well? 

 

Here in St Helens, our drop has consistently seen around 3000 missing from last season but that's easy to explain as last season was a serious blip upwards due to the new stadium factor.  Our crowds hadn't been that high for decades.  I think our average this season will be similar to our final year at Knowsley Road.  Perhaps a little lower given that we haven't sold out the Wigan and Warrington matches this season, largely due to them not turning up in the same numbers as previously.

 

So you don't fill your own new home and its the away clubs fault?



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#132 Saintslass

Saintslass
  • Coach
  • 4,334 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

So you don't fill your own new home and its the away clubs fault?

Er, exactly where did I say it was the away club's fault?  What a silly statement to make!  I said that was the difference between the numbers, which it was.



#133 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,028 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

Er, exactly where did I say it was the away club's fault?  What a silly statement to make!  I said that was the difference between the numbers, which it was.

So how many did Wigan and Warrington bring before and how many this season.

 

I presume you have the figures since you seem that confident.

 

P.S. All supporters don't buy tickets from their club directly.

 

P.P.S. Yes you did make a silly statement.


Edited by Padge, 22 September 2013 - 08:19 PM.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#134 Pete M

Pete M
  • Coach
  • 86 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:17 PM

A note on the Hull attendances: I am.not surprised in the dip in numbers. In 2002 our stadium was new and jobs were fairly easy to come by in Hull. Now, there are more than 100 fighting for every available job in the city. Simply, we're skint. It has affected season pass sales dramatically for both Hull clubs, so there is no wonder that play off attendance's are also down.

No, it doesn't explain everything, but it does explain a great deal in Hull's case, where the fan base continues to be comprised of the traditional working class which has been hardest hit by the economic catastrophe that has seen tens of thousands made redundant over the last few years.

Hull's regular season home attendances in 2013 were only 1.7% down on last year. Only Leeds and Widnes generated an increase.

 

Leeds 1.7% up

Widnes 0.6% up

Hull 1.7% down

Wakefield 2.5% down

Hull KR 3.7% down

Castleford 4,9% down

Warrington 7.2% down

Wigan 9.3% down

Catalan 10.9% down

Huddersfield 17.4% down

St Helens 19.5% down

London 21.2% down

Bradford 27.2% down

Salford 43.2% down



#135 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,221 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:38 AM

Now, now let's not get personal just because I've seen a flaw in your "argument".


I have had many disagreements with Padge on this forum and will no doubt continue to do so BUT, when it comes to statistics on the game and knowledge of the various rules and regulations governing it, this seems to be a hobby of his and, whilst he may post lies and even DAMN lies, I personally do not doubt at all his statistics.

Unless you can categorically refute his statistics as being wrong, then I think you should withdraw from this argument, accept his graph and argue the pros and cons of the crowds argument accepting that his published date are accurate.

#136 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,221 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:48 AM

There was also an "experiment"with 2 divisions first past the post championship for a couple of seasons from 1963


Yes and Swinton were champions twice and both Hunslet and Keighley won promotion and were allowed into the 1st division, oh happy days.

#137 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,221 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:16 AM

I've no doubt that for any club shut out of SL it's been a disaster.
 
But would we be on the right track trying to keep 37 professional clubs going forward? Even if SKY money could be shared 37 ways (which it can't) it doesn't follow the game as a whole would progress.
 
Lyndsay knew full well trying to keep the old set up going wasn't possible on the low resources the game has. He created Superlegue to get the SKY money and arranged for elite clubs to provide a professional game for fans of lowly struggling clubs to go watch. It didn't happen by fans instantly transferring alliegances, but it remains the case that years on the games fans (who come and go) have migrated to Superleague, and the figures show that in 2012 every one of the M62 Superleague clubs (not six) had higher crowds than they had before Superleague began. Superleague provides more of it's fans with a higher standard of Rugby League to watch.
 
What is the problem?


You make it sound like St.Maurice of Wigan was on a mission from God and had a well planned divine blueprint for the salvation of RL. In fact, SL was cobbled together in indecent haste, when Rupert Murdoch came riding in on his charger from Australia and gave us a take it or leave it offer because of his media war with Kerry Packer.

Maurice was a bookie but he did a very poor job of gambling and risk assessment when presented with this offer and never tried hard enough to push Murdoch for a better deal beyond getting a little sop to placate the lower reaches.

Murdoch and Fox/Sky were never in a more pressurable situation than they were then. .Once the war was won Sky could dictate terms to us not the other way around. If St. Maurice had been a bookie worth his salt we would have had a bigger contract covering more clubs and the successes of SL would have been replicated in a much broader spectrum of the game than the ivory tower league we have now and the attendances today would have been much bigger because they would have spread the pool much wider than at present.

You know I agree with you that the Sky money saved the game but Maurice Lyndsay was not the saviour and he could have made a much better deal with the deus ex machina than he did to the benefit of all clubs.

#138 koli

koli
  • Coach
  • 166 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:06 AM

Talk about 20:20 hindsight .How on earth do any of us know if a better deal could have been made!?? The SL conncept in both Aus n here was all about creating a more sreamlined ,intense elite tier not spreading the cash evenly across the existing game.



#139 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,980 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:39 AM

Maurice was a bookie but he did a very poor job of gambling and risk assessment when presented with this offer and never tried hard enough to push Murdoch for a better deal beyond getting a little sop to placate the lower reaches.

 

As per Koli how do you know this?

 

Did he even meet Murdoch??

 

How do you push a better deal when nobody else wants the product???



#140 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:07 AM

I have had many disagreements with Padge on this forum and will no doubt continue to do so BUT, when it comes to statistics on the game and knowledge of the various rules and regulations governing it, this seems to be a hobby of his and, whilst he may post lies and even DAMN lies, I personally do not doubt at all his statistics.

Unless you can categorically refute his statistics as being wrong, then I think you should withdraw from this argument, accept his graph and argue the pros and cons of the crowds argument accepting that his published date are accurate.

I never doubted Padge's stats, all I asked for was a reference other than they had been posted on here lots of times before. As for an apology, been there done that. Please keep up. ;)

rldfsignature.jpg





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users