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Batley imports

Are they necessary

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#81 il cattivo

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

What attacking skills other than great footwork and pace would you want in a winger? Offiah was actually just as prolific when playing outside the relatively unheralded Darren Wright at Widnes than with any of his centres at Wigan. 

well i'd like one that could defend and tackle a bit,like his contemporaries Ettingshausen,Carne,Wishart etc....but i'd agree that Darren Wright was as good a centre with Offiah as anyone,as he had to do both his tackling and Offiah's.


"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#82 jamescolin

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:38 PM

 

well i'd like one that could defend and tackle a bit,like his contemporaries Ettingshausen,Carne,Wishart etc....but i'd agree that Darren Wright was as good a centre with Offiah as anyone,as he had to do both his tackling and Offiah's.


So what happenend when the opposition had an overlap? Did the centre whoever he was tackle two players at one go or did they always go on to score as Offiah didn't tackle. If he was so poor at tackling as you say he would not have made it to international level.

#83 TheTerminator

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

It's a bit of a myth that Offiah's defence was poor. Mediocre maybe, but poor - no. In terms of the comparisons, Ettinghausen was another fantastic player who - like Offiah, has legendary status. Willie Carne and Rod Wishart weren't even in his league. Only my opinion, of course.

Edited by TheTerminator, 15 October 2013 - 05:44 PM.

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#84 il cattivo

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:38 PM



So what happenend when the opposition had an overlap? Did the centre whoever he was tackle two players at one go or did they always go on to score as Offiah didn't tackle. If he was so poor at tackling as you say he would not have made it to international level.

Lots of players have made it to international level for GB and being unable to tackle,but they could hardly leave offiah out could they?
"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#85 il cattivo

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:10 PM

It's a bit of a myth that Offiah's defence was poor. Mediocre maybe, but poor - no. In terms of the comparisons, Ettinghausen was another fantastic player who - like Offiah, has legendary status. Willie Carne and Rod Wishart weren't even in his league. Only my opinion, of course.

Maybe,maybe not,i do understand what you're saying though,and I've always wondered how many tries offiah would have scored with Meninga,Renouf or Daley as his centre.

Edited by il cattivo, 15 October 2013 - 07:11 PM.

"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#86 jamescolin

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:33 PM

I know that rumours abound but is Offiah the next Batley import? 



#87 DOGFATHER

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:57 PM

i saw him play numerous times both live and on the TV and to be honest i thought his skill levels limited to the fact he could run damned fast and had decent footwork...but i'm struggling to see any other skills.... :(

his passing from dummy half was slow and laboured,his tackling non existent and were it not for wigan signing a certain Gene Miles (who even at the end of his career was head and shoulders above any british centre) i'm not sure he would have scored as many tries at domestic level..he certainly never replicated it in internationals,but then he never had a decent centre who could give him the service and the Australians knew how to keep the ball away from him when defending and never gave him space.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=tPdkL8w_Qog

 

Try this link above and see if you still feel the same?

 

The guy was the best winger in history. Look at tries 4, 5, 7 and 8 in particular of the 10 he scored in the Leeds game. Remember these weren't scored against a poor team, he scored them against Leeds in a Semi Final,  Watch his positional play and the timing of this runs, he isn't on the wing to score any of these 4 and is always just hitting the ball at pace, not over running it nor lagging behind, that is absolute class.

 

Try 4 in the link is a prime example. When the break happens he is in position on the left wing; but the ball shifts to the right hand side of the field away from him. When he catches the ball to score, he is less than 5 yards from the try line 10 yards to the right of the sticks. I wish our wingers could do it, heck I wish the England wingers in the up coming World Cup could do it.

 

To give an example, I would bet Gaz Potts isn't much slower than Offiah was in his prime, maybe half a second or so over 100 meters. The difference is, Potts can't read the game like Offiah could and either doesn't have the desire or fitness to be in the positions Offiah put himself in time and time again in a match. Offiah's backing up was incredible.

 

Everyone remembers Offiah's length of the field 'spectaculars' but I'd bet the vast majority of his tries were walk in's, he scored them simply because he was in the right place at the right time.


Edited by DOGFATHER, 16 October 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#88 The King Of Leon

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:21 AM

I can just about remember a little old bald headed winger for Blackpool Borough, they reckon he couldnt tackle either, my Dad reckoned he was the best winger of all time, i think he scored over 800 tries for Warrington. Offiah was the best ive seen though Boston was brute strength and Vollenhoven was a great winger.I think youve got a work in progress on Chisholm but undoubtedly great potential.


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#89 il cattivo

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:00 AM

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=tPdkL8w_Qog

Try this link above and see if you still feel the same?

The guy was the best winger in history. Look at tries 4, 5, 7 and 8 in particular of the 10 he scored in the Leeds game. Remember these weren't scored against a poor team, he scored them against Leeds in a Semi Final, Watch his positional play and the timing of this runs, he isn't on the wing to score any of these 4 and is always just hitting the ball at pace, not over running it nor lagging behind, that is absolute class.

Try 4 in the link is a prime example. When the break happens he is in position on the left wing; but the ball shifts to the right hand side of the field away from him. When he catches the ball to score, he is less than 5 yards from the try line 10 yards to the right of the sticks. I wish our wingers could do it, heck I wish the England wingers in the up coming World Cup could do it.

To give an example, I would bet Gaz Potts isn't much slower than Offiah was in his prime, maybe half a second or so over 100 meters. The difference is, Potts can't read the game like Offiah could and either doesn't have the desire or fitness to be in the positions Offiah put himself in time and time again in a match. Offiah's backing up was incredible.

Everyone remembers Offiah's length of the field 'spectaculars' but I'd bet the vast majority of his tries were walk in's, he scored them simply because he was in the right place at the right time.

When did you ever see offiah do this against an australian side,or indeed see an australian side tackle this badly? Let me explain,I do not deny that he was a damn good winger,I just think,in my humble opinion,that he wasn't quite the most talented one at the time.
"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#90 TheTerminator

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

When did you ever see offiah do this against an australian side,or indeed see an australian side tackle this badly? Let me explain,I do not deny that he was a damn good winger,I just think,in my humble opinion,that he wasn't quite the most talented one at the time.

From memory, I can remember Offiah scoring at least two excellent tries against Australia - one in 1988 and the other in 1992. He also scored one of the best tries I've ever seen against the Kiwis in 1989.

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#91 il cattivo

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:24 AM

i also remember the 3rd  test match in 1990 against the kiwis that we lost 21-18 when he sprinted 50 odd metres under the sticks,and in the act of shaping up for a fancy post try celebration dropped the ball......and lost us the world cup points that were allocated with the game...but luckily not place in the world cup final in 1992 because of a better points difference over the kiwis.....

but i think we can agree to disagree on our opinions of him...undoubtably ONE of the greatest wingers in his era.but not the best in my book.


Edited by il cattivo, 16 October 2013 - 10:39 AM.

"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#92 jamescolin

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:05 AM

I can just about remember a little old bald headed winger for Blackpool Borough, they reckon he couldnt tackle either, my Dad reckoned he was the best winger of all time, i think he scored over 800 tries for Warrington. Offiah was the best ive seen though Boston was brute strength and Vollenhoven was a great winger.I think youve got a work in progress on Chisholm but undoubtedly great potential.

 

Yes I remember seeing Brian B play. Once at Fev he had scored a bucketful on the right wing. Next time he broke a handful of Fev players were waiting for him on the right wing all tensed up to give him a going over. He approached them at full pace and then... came off his right foot to score under the sticks. Didn't look much but what a winger.



#93 il cattivo

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:37 AM

Yes I remember seeing Brian B play. Once at Fev he had scored a bucketful on the right wing. Next time he broke a handful of Fev players were waiting for him on the right wing all tensed up to give him a going over. He approached them at full pace and then... came off his right foot to score under the sticks. Didn't look much but what a winger.

my dad told me he once watched him up at the mount when he played for blackpool...this thin balding old man came out with his knees,elbows,hands all bandaged up...my dad and his mates laughed at the sight,not believing this was the great brian bevan...

he proceeded to score a hatrick and left the batley winger (and most of the team) for dead time and time again.


Edited by il cattivo, 16 October 2013 - 10:38 AM.

"you never win a game unless you beat the guy in front of you. The score on the board doesn’t mean a thing. That’s for the fans. You’ve got to win the war with the man in front of you. You’ve got to get your man." - Vince Lombardi.

#94 Steve Slater

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

Interesting to read Dogfather's comments on Gareth Potts,who he considers to have blistering pace, I felt the same about Tommy Hodson, who is a very good finisher but had defensive weaknesses and doesn't have Will Sharp's all round game. As far as Potts goes, give me Greg Johnson any day, I wish he was one of the four who signed for Fev!



#95 Sir Jekyll Stocking

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

Back on topic...

It looks like Gareth Moore is injured (shoulder) again.

He was out a few months this last season after an operation. Came back in May, if memory serves me correctly.


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#96 DOGFATHER

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

Potts was better positionally and a better defender than Johnson imo both were very good players, I just can't help thinking Johnsons lack of size and ability to catch the high ball under pressure will see him struggle in the
top flight.

#97 Steve Slater

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:34 PM

Potts was better positionally and a better defender than Johnson imo both were very good players, I just can't help thinking Johnsons lack of size and ability to catch the high ball under pressure will see him struggle in the
top flight.

Well you see them every week DF, but Johnson has been outstanding every time he has played against Fev this season. Will Sharp is our best finisher and Greg handled him well in the play-off game.



#98 buford t justice

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:07 PM

I cant fathom where Morre will play at Fev - you have Briggs, Kain and Finn, all of whom are far better half backs than him, and Ellis and Flanagan at Hooker.

Hope Moore likes playing reserve grade as thats all he'll be doing.

Only Flanagan is a loss for me, Moore average at best and has more bad games than good, Hirst doesnt run his size often enough (if your coach can get him to do this consistently then he's a cert for coach of the year) and Walmsley is a ten a penny forward, lots of them floating round the division - nothing special.

All change at a few clubs next season, going to be very intersting to see how this affects the pecking order.
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law

#99 FaxMachine

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

Unless Moore has changed his attitude since he was at Fax he won't like being 2nd string. One infamous quote of his from his days at Fax was "Mine should be the first name on the team sheet every game"! As you can imagine he wasn't very popular with either the fans or the other players.

#100 buford t justice

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:25 PM

Unless Moore has changed his attitude since he was at Fax he won't like being 2nd string. One infamous quote of his from his days at Fax was "Mine should be the first name on the team sheet every game"! As you can imagine he wasn't very popular with either the fans or the other players.


Similar statements at Batley this year, including abusing the fans on twitter havent made him popular either.

The fact hes had so many clubs and is still only young tells its own story. Most are glad to see the back of him at Batley.
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law




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