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here we go again.....


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#21 sheddings69

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

Maybe Sheddings, also, did the deal that Koukash had muted hinge on Oldham getting promoted? Who knows. All I know is that CH works as hard as any person I know in trying to keep ORLFC going, and it would of been so simple for him just to shut up shop and walk away a defeated man.

As I've repeatedly said on here over the years, nobody is questioning how hard CH works or how much he cares. The ability to do the job successfully on his own is another thing entirely.

Would it really be simple to sell the club and its considerable debt with no assets for a nominal £1 fee? On face value perhaps but not that simple to walk away from a salaried CEO position with nothing.

Edited by sheddings69, 01 October 2013 - 06:03 PM.


#22 eclecticsheep

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:12 PM

There is Something disingenuous about this continal issue of tax debt, one would expect a qualified person to be more responsible as a matter of personal integrity.

#23 cluedo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:37 PM

As I've repeatedly said on here over the years, nobody is questioning how hard CH works or how much he cares. The ability to do the job successfully on his own is another thing entirely.
Would it really be simple to sell the club and its considerable debt with no assets for a nominal £1 fee? On face value perhaps but not that simple to walk away from a salaried CEO position with nothing.


The final sentence is the problem, a lot of the debt I imagine will be in directors loans unpaid salary to CH etc, the other side is surely as an accountant he can earn 50k a year anyway. Koukash is the biggest hope the club have had in a long time, the stumbling block will be CH wanting to remain in some capacity. CH fan or not you would have to be blind not to see he his the main problem to the club progressing, I'm not 100% but at some stage have we not had four other directors working with CH, the clubs following is decreasing every year surely they can't all be wrong.

#24 sheddings69

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:45 PM

The final sentence is the problem, a lot of the debt I imagine will be in directors loans unpaid salary to CH etc, the other side is surely as an accountant he can earn 50k a year anyway. Koukash is the biggest hope the club have had in a long time, the stumbling block will be CH wanting to remain in some capacity. CH fan or not you would have to be blind not to see he his the main problem to the club progressing, I'm not 100% but at some stage have we not had four other directors working with CH, the clubs following is decreasing every year surely they can't all be wrong.


I don't think he's a fully qualified accountant is he? Certainly not CIMA anyway perhaps AAT?

#25 Pugwash

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Like I have posted many times on here, you cannot run a successful and profitable business with gates of 600 and put a competitive side capable of winning things.

People who stay away for their own reasons are causing just as much damage as they perceive CH to be doing to the club. However, if everything was perfect, there will be other excuses why they won't attend.

 Oldham have struggled more than most over the years, and with the club robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's easy to get caught up in the loop. However, past history says we have always paid it back with interest, so I guess we shouldn't be worried by todays news. 

 

An interesting snippet I did hear is of a team that are not happy with a training faciltiy bill that they though they were using for free - and it is not Oldham. And with the money that was said to be owed, I guess Oldham's financial plight will be miniscule compared to that.

 

Hornets have just done it mate!

 

The whole point is that you don't pay out money you can't afford and live within strict budgets.  That's why we regularly lose players to other sides but we just have to live wit it and work with the lads who are willing to play for the club and not to chase the money.  If a player is solely motivated by money then I'd rather he stay away from Hornets!

 

Take your club from Hamilton and run it yourselves you don't need him!!!

 

Pugwash.

 

 


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#26 cluedo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:42 PM

I don't think he's a fully qualified accountant is he? Certainly not CIMA anyway perhaps AAT?


Don't honestly know

#27 andykenny

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:33 PM

Like I have posted many times on here, you cannot run a successful and profitable business with gates of 600 and put a competitive side capable of winning things.

People who stay away for their own reasons are causing just as much damage as they perceive CH to be doing to the club. However, if everything was perfect, there will be other excuses why they won't attend.

 Oldham have struggled more than most over the years, and with the club robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's easy to get caught up in the loop. However, past history says we have always paid it back with interest, so I guess we shouldn't be worried by todays news. 

 

An interesting snippet I did hear is of a team that are not happy with a training faciltiy bill that they though they were using for free - and it is not Oldham. And with the money that was said to be owed, I guess Oldham's financial plight will be miniscule compared to that.

Agreed, you cannot run a business like that In fact it is a total waste of time.One crisis to another.Yet the man carries on.

As regards people staying away or not attending they are potential paying customers.If some chose to explain away why they choose not to attend you can either listen to them or ignore them.Personally I would listen. Potential customers do  not damage businesses but failing to capture them will.



#28 bigred

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:56 PM

Oldham are providing a product.
We as potential consumers of that product, make a judgement as to whether it's good value at the price being asked.
Over the last few seasons the majority of supporters have clearly decided it wasn't and choose to spend their disposable income in other ways.
Berating people for staying away is not the answer, rather it is to ask what needs to be done to entice them back.
The answer is that change is needed at the very top.
I'm sure Mr Hamilton is a nice person, loves his parents, pets, partner etc.
Sadly, and whether fairly or unfairly, he is now seen by very many as the main problem and sole reason for staying away.
As someone above alluded to though, at present it's not in his best personal interests to go!

#29 Steve the Roughyed

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:17 AM

Oldham are providing a product.
We as potential consumers of that product, make a judgement as to whether it's good value at the price being asked.
Over the last few seasons the majority of supporters have clearly decided it wasn't and choose to spend their disposable income in other ways.
Berating people for staying away is not the answer, rather it is to ask what needs to be done to entice them back.
The answer is that change is needed at the very top.
I'm sure Mr Hamilton is a nice person, loves his parents, pets, partner etc.
Sadly, and whether fairly or unfairly, he is now seen by very many as the main problem and sole reason for staying away.
As someone above alluded to though, at present it's not in his best personal interests to go!

Absolutely right bigred.  I have been one of the stayaways over the last two seasons. Not as any kind of protest against Oldham or CH but more of disillusionment with the game in general. I have tried hard to put forward constructive reasons as to why after 45 years this has happened.  None of my posts refer to CH because I genuinely think he is doing his best and it is NOTa protest against him why I haven't been.  Maybe his best isn't good enough but I can't condemn him for effort.  Despite my attempts to not make it personal I have had replies just telling me to stay away so I have done.  If I was asked what is the most significant reason for lack of interest then the answer is clearly Whitebank and the lack of development.  It is obvious that many fans from other clubs visit once and then don't bother again and I can't blame them.  The place is just a total embarrassment.  The failure to develop Whitebank must have cost the club a lot of lost income.  Joint stadium for the two teams in this town should be a priority for both clubs.

Bit of a rant there sorry but if I feel moved to post then I care.  Time for reasoned debate not name calling and slagging off folks.


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#30 andykenny

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:32 AM

When we write our opinions we get accused of coming out the woodwork,rubbing salt in the wounds and negativity.I went to Leigh on Sunday and came away sick to the stomach and with raised blood pressure (fact).Sunday was another point in time when you look at things and come to a conclusion.IF Oldham is meant to a business changes need to come.This happens all the time both in business and sport.

We have done the coach changes so It has to be the man at the top.There has to be a message in losing 5 playoffs,6 if you count the Widnes one.

To me to continue as we are year on year has to be the most utterly negative thing imaginable.If you buy into it carry on.You have no say in the club and the man at the top will continue to deliver something that gets less and smaller every year.

Wanting a change is not negative it's constructive.


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#31 saints10coach

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

When we write our opinions we get accused of coming out the woodwork,rubbing salt in the wounds and negativity.I went to Leigh on Sunday and came away sick to the stomach and with raised blood pressure (fact).Sunday was another point in time when you look at things and come to a conclusion.IF Oldham is meant to a business changes need to come.This happens all the time both in business and sport.

We have done the coach changes so It has to be the man at the top.There has to be a message in losing 5 playoffs,6 if you count the Widnes one.

To me to continue as we are year on year has to be the most utterly negative thing imaginable.If you buy into it carry on.You have no say in the club and the man at the top will continue to deliver something that gets less and smaller every year.

Wanting a change is not negative it's constructive.

Playing Devils advocate. Would you not say that getting to 7 cup finals in a 14 year history, is amazing?


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#32 andykenny

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:30 AM

Playing Devils advocate. Would you not say that getting to 7 cup finals in a 14 year history, is amazing?

You are welcome to do so.

Well.Perhaps if we had won one I would.

Also remember our history is a lot longer 14 years.



#33 saints10coach

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:38 AM

You are welcome to do so.

Well.Perhaps if we had won one I would.

Also remember our history is a lot longer 14 years.

Our history is, a lot longer. During that history, we have had a lot more barren 14 year periods than the most recent.



#34 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

7 finals in 14 years proves potential....


we need people in charge who can forfill our potential...

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the 8TH most successful team in british RL


#35 thecrab

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

Playing Devils advocate. Would you not say that getting to 7 cup finals in a 14 year history, is amazing?

 

I dont think its amazing at all...because we are still in the lowest tier of professional rugby league and have been for the last 5 years (or maybe more my memory fails me).

You only have to look at the clubs around us to see the club has been ground down to its poorest position in our entire history.

By the way I'm not saying CH has caused all this, I'm just saying our situation is nowhere near as rosy as s10c puts it.



#36 andykenny

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

Our history is, a lot longer. During that history, we have had a lot more barren 14 year periods than the most recent.

Well statistically it may may true but I'd rather it be getting to challenge cup semis,playing Wigan,Warrington,St Helens .

Let me think.If i go back 14 years at a time till the early sixties...mmmm No not that bad at all.

You seem to see our current plight as achievement, playing in a development league in an embarrassment of a stadium.

 

Now the stadium thing is not all Hamiltons fault.However, alone he lacked the ability to deal with this.

I hold this town responsible for the stadium issue.This after watching other towns sorts their  out.

I have utter contempt for Oldham  Council and no longer wish to live in Oldham. I am in the process of

leaving this awful place.Voting with my feet.

 

Where we differ is I see it a continuous slide backwards. You talk it up if you like but .We will  have to agree to differ.


Edited by andykenny, 02 October 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#37 saints10coach

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

There were certainly periods during the seventies that were not so rosy. In those days the people in charge had the luxury of generating income by the sale of players or even offering up the land owned as security to get loans. All these things are not available to the current directors.



#38 andykenny

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

You are telling me why the directors can't take the job forward.
I want to know who can.They would get my backing.Its not just a money thing,its about not being fobbed off by the council onto a vitual ski slope of a ground as well.
Someone who can bang heads together.Joined up thinking between the rugby,the latics,the council.How hard can it be?

#39 The Art of Hand and Foot

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

You are telling me why the directors can't take the job forward.
I want to know who can.They would get my backing.Its not just a money thing,its about not being fobbed off by the council onto a vitual ski slope of a ground as well.
Someone who can bang heads together.Joined up thinking between the rugby,the latics,the council.How hard can it be?

about as hard as £20m, minimum is what it'll need to get everything moving in the right direction. One person owning two clubs and developing bp. If it's a move elsewhere then depending on what the sale of bp brings maybe more.

#40 andykenny

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

We all need to get on that euro millions,in case Koukash is thwarted by CH,the RL or the elite republican guard in oldham council.Remember the council have previous having seen off ikea m&s and cinemas.




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