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#1 Lakeside

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

What a great day it must have been at LSV for the players and supporters. I fell victim to the holiday curse similar to our illustrious Chairman.

Now then the Hornets model gets really tested. Four seasons getting out of this poor division seemed an eternity.

Let’s see the plans to stay up now – I would hope that the budget gets doubled.

Well done to Ian Talbot the Players and Supporters.

 



#2 glemiln

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

I am sure that all involved at the club realises that a huge step-up and effort will be needed to survive a fall from the Championship in 2014. Wednesday may tell us if that fall will be 2, 4 or whatever to a 'new' Championship 1 format for 2015.  Any general restructure will be decided ultimately by the  SL clubs' votes and some are unlikely to vote for and end to their current status.  My guess and past RFL history suggest that it will drag on a few months yet, perhaps delayed another season?

 

Many of the established clubs in the Championship have recruited well to their already strong (and big) and experienced squads. No doubt some on full-time contracts.  If the rumours of SL2, formed mainly from the top 10 of the Championship, prove true it will no doubt prompt more spending.  Those Championship clubs promoted from C1 in 2012 have done well this year, so there is no reason why Hornets cannot do the same, especially with the determination and support seen in winning the Final.  A huge step-up for those of the victorious squad which are retained and in what we can afford to reward them and bring in newcomers willing to play for the shirt.  Dual registration will be another factor, especially ours and that of Haven with Saints.  Hopefully, much will be clearer soon.

 

I am sure all is looking forward to the challenges ahead and to seeing the formidable clashes with Fev, Fax, etc.

BRING 'EM ON and let's stay in the Championship, perhaps even SL2!

 

 

 



#3 eclecticsheep

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:32 PM

Hello Glemiln, did you stay and watch the championship playoff after the Oldham v Rochdale game?

#4 Pugwash

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 06:16 PM

What a great day it must have been at LSV for the players and supporters. I fell victim to the holiday curse similar to our illustrious Chairman.

Now then the Hornets model gets really tested. Four seasons getting out of this poor division seemed an eternity.

Let’s see the plans to stay up now – I would hope that the budget gets doubled.

Well done to Ian Talbot the Players and Supporters.

 

Talk about damning with faint praise!  I've avidly read these pages, not just since last Sunday's heroics but since the start of the pay-offs and the usual suspects have been significant only by their absence.  I've seen no retractions or apologies for the anti-Talbot rants and abuse but have seen one or two hypocrites.

 

Now Ian Talbot has said he will be coach again next season I hope he will be given a fair crack of the whip and not have the rug pulled from beneath his feet after every reversal.  The budget the coach gets will largely depend on how many o the folk who went to LSV last Sunday decide to give us another chance and come to games, buy shirts, buy Golden Gambles and, hint, hint, join the Co-op.

 

Let's hope everyone gets behind the club and not just to give 'em a kick!

 

Pugwash.

 


Bobbie Goulding is God
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DeepakChopra:

"Every time you are tempted to react in the same old way, ask yourself if you want to be a prisoner of the past or a pioneer of the future".


War doesn't decide who is right, just who is left!



Andrew Birch is Pugwash.

#5 glemiln

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

Appears that the plannned meeting to discuss proposals for the restructuring for 2015 has been postponed.

http://www.yorkshire...uture-1-6124221



#6 PooingDog

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:03 PM

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas do they.


Memento mori

Who cares -Wins!!!

Carpe Cerevisi

AKA. Winston Smith

Give 'em a fair trial..........and then hang 'em"

#7 Pugwash

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

The R.L.&L.E. mused this week on who should run Rugby League, the clubs or the R.F.L.?

 

It's difficult to really make a decision as if you allow the clubs to run the whole shebang it would be like putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum whereas now we just have the present lunatics running it!

 

The most important point is that we need a set of people who know how to plan the growth of a regional sport into a national sport without throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

 

If that takes 25-30 years then we should be ready to put up with some tough decisions but only those that bring strength and not poison the roots.

 

Pugwash.


Bobbie Goulding is God
Posted Image

DeepakChopra:

"Every time you are tempted to react in the same old way, ask yourself if you want to be a prisoner of the past or a pioneer of the future".


War doesn't decide who is right, just who is left!



Andrew Birch is Pugwash.

#8 Anita Bath

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

Whay the fascination with planning for turning a regional sport into a national sport?  Its a regional sport in Australia (largely confined to two states - their equivalent of the M62 corridor), as well as New Zealand and they seem to be able to do things well. The expansion to Victoria (sorry Melbourne - try finding much serious league played other than by the Storm in Victoria) has consisted of one team - originally subsidised heavily by a media organisation and later found to be fiddling the books in order to be competitive.

 

Aussies talk about expanding but only on the basis of taking in more money (ie commercial greed). I suspect the reason it hasn't happened is because they realise it will weaken the competition.

 

If the money wasted on planning for expansion in the British game had been put to productive use we might have been able to beat the aussies and Kimis in international tournaments like we used to in the 'bad old days'.  Its 1972 and counting.  Other than the Branson years its been one long struggle in London and has now become an embarrasment to the game.  In the meantime Cumbria remains an neglected stronghold for the game.

 

If expansion is the goal I suspect those folks you seem to be unappreciative of have already taken the game to Gloucester, Oxford, south London, Hemel etc - though based on attendences this expansion was clearly not 'demand-led'.



#9 DiddyDave

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:58 AM

Well said Anita,it`s all an absolute waste of time and money,but I suppose it justifies somebody at GHQ keeping his job;the more crackpot ideas the better. Same as the suits taking control of the game,all that happens is that the long suffering fans (are there still any out there?) get to pay more for the privilege of watching their teams either through the gate,or having to travel to far off wonderful places never heard of before. Cumbria is an excellent example of a league stronghold being sorely neglected,though you could say the whole established bastion has in favour no hoper areas being "attracted". Let`s back to putting money into the schools and amateur clubs where they actually play the game,not into no hoper new clubs who have no interest in the game and never will. 



#10 Rochdale Roughyed

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:59 AM

Whay the fascination with planning for turning a regional sport into a national sport?  Its a regional sport in Australia (largely confined to two states - their equivalent of the M62 corridor), as well as New Zealand and they seem to be able to do things well. The expansion to Victoria (sorry Melbourne - try finding much serious league played other than by the Storm in Victoria) has consisted of one team - originally subsidised heavily by a media organisation and later found to be fiddling the books in order to be competitive.

 

Aussies talk about expanding but only on the basis of taking in more money (ie commercial greed). I suspect the reason it hasn't happened is because they realise it will weaken the competition.

 

If the money wasted on planning for expansion in the British game had been put to productive use we might have been able to beat the aussies and Kimis in international tournaments like we used to in the 'bad old days'.  Its 1972 and counting.  Other than the Branson years its been one long struggle in London and has now become an embarrasment to the game.  In the meantime Cumbria remains an neglected stronghold for the game.

 

If expansion is the goal I suspect those folks you seem to be unappreciative of have already taken the game to Gloucester, Oxford, south London, Hemel etc - though based on attendences this expansion was clearly not 'demand-led'.

 

Some really interesting points there Anita. I mostly agree.....but then, there is the example over here of the AFL (for most of Australian eternity an exclusively Victorian pastime) becoming more national with every passing year......and successfully too! People said it would NEVER catch on in Sydney......but it did and Sydney is one of the most successful clubs of the past ten years. Perth is a sell out for both teams over there most games. Brisbane has been hugely successful and the Gold Coast now attracts 14,000 per game. Adelaide supports two teams and they take the game to full houses in Tasmania and Darwin every year. The point is.....it CAN be done but it needs firstly a product (we've got a good one).....then a relentless and well funded marketing plan by the league. Below is the average home attendances for AFL teams this past season. Even Sydney's second expansion team are attracting close to 10,000 in a year when another soccer team was also introduced in the same part of the City. I hate to suggest it.......but until the league is franchised, there will be too many individual agenda's and ego's at play to make the sport anything other than regional (and some may prefer that.....i don't offer a personal preference).....but if it is ever to be successful nationally it has to be franchised and run by a business management board with no allegiance to any club.

 

Hawthorn Hawks  47,700  Collingwood Magpies  55,173  Richmond Tigers  54,800  Essendon Bombers 49,152  Geelong Cats  37,621  Carlton Blues 44,179  Fremantle Dockers 35,015  West Coast Eagles  36,051  Adelaide Crows 33,703  Sydney Swans 29,104  St Kilda Saints 28,965  North Melbourne Kangaroos 27,406  Port Adelaide Power  26,915  Western Bulldogs 22,132  Melbourne Demons 21,816  Brisbane Lions 21,083  Gold Coast Suns 13,907  GWS Giants 9,701


Edited by Rochdale Roughyed, 09 October 2013 - 06:03 AM.


#11 Anita Bath

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

You raise some good points but also there are other factors underlying the success of the AFL. For example western australia and south australia already had their own very strong Australian rules competitions (and still do) so it wasn't expansion - it was a form of amalgamation. Many of the best aussie rules players have come from those states.The same can be siad for Darwin and Tasmania where AFL is already the main or most popular sport. Also being the only country playing it (seriously) there is the cultural/national identity stuff that Union or League cannot call on - those games were 'imported' by brits - Aussie rules is their own game.

expansion to Sydney and Brisbane was a real disaster for many years - with most if not all of the bills being paid by the League and some serious ownership issues. But I think the league did learn some lessons and more recent expansion to the second team in Sydney and the one in Gold coast have been more carefully planned and managed.

Bottom line is that Aussie rules has always had a much more national appeal than the other codes in Australia and it was only in the strong rugby states (NSW and Queensland) where it was a second (or third) level game. It is interesting that Union has expanded (at least at the Super 15 level) to other states apparently quite succesfully. However that comes back to your argument about the Franchise approach. I am not aware that union is played by many, or organised into strong leagues/clubs in Victoria and Western Australia.

Interesting to note that AFL is based on club membership (like cricket) which brings with it admission to games (as a member you are a season ticket holder) - there is no distinction.

#12 Anita Bath

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:25 PM

I should also add that the expansion came with some 'retraction' with some traditional clubs 'going under' (Fitzroy forced to amalgamte with the struggling Brisbane club) - South Melbourne being moved to Sydney, and others having their roots in the community watered down by the pressures to move their games to the mega stadia. All melbourne games are now played at the MCG or the Docklands. Classic grounds like Victoria Park (collingwood) and Princes Park (Carlton), Whitten Oval (Footscray - oops sorry forced to change their name to Western Bulldogs - ughh, and they play in Hornets colours), Punt Road (Richmond) and Junction Oval (St Kilda) are now used for training and the reserve grades. Only Geelong (a separate city 30 or so miles outside Melbourne) still play occasionally at 'home' - but even they play some of their home games in Melbourne.

I was fortunate enough to go to a Collingwood reserve game at Victoria Park while down in Australia over the summer - the place oozes tradition and history.

#13 Rochdale Roughyed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:20 AM

All the old grounds around Melbourne ooze tradition and history as you note Anita....but the AFL recognised that supporters (or patrons in a business sense) wanted better facilities than those employed in the traditional heartland could afford. Those at the MCG and the Etihad match anything you will see anywhere in the world. In the UK, we'd all be up in arms about it (and i'm sure they were here when it happened) but people from Fitzroy still associate themselves with the Lions and similar the people of South Melbourne still align themselves to Sydney. As big as Melbourne is, if the league (then the VFL) was to prosper, there had to be a cull and there had to be expansion. For all the fuss at the time, there has been determination to succeed and resources provided to ensure the plan worked. You are right that the AFL had to heavily subsidise the effort......the difference being that our RFL runs away when the going gets tough (and they spend very little on marketing in comparison)....until they come back with the next hair brained scheme. There is talk of a franchise in Tassie but i doubt that will happen for a while yet as they will allow the two newer clubs to fully 'bed in' before pushing on. Incidentally, i 'barrack for' (such is the term here for allegiance) the Bulldogs.....and their Hornets colours!

 

RR






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