Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

League Restructure


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

What about the standard of goal-kicking? Were Gowers and Blan, better exponents of it than Morty?

 

There is far more of the  game played with the foot these days than the ones you hold so dear, so how can you say that today's stars are not footballers?

 

 

 

John, don't have a myocardial infarction, I totally agree with you on the point about Morty/Blan/Gowers re place kicking.

 

But the literal meaning of the word 'foot' bears no real connection with the true meaning of the word rugby footballers. After all, many, if not most, athletes have always 'played with the foot' so to speak.

 

You and I are different people, seeing things in different ways. Let's just agree to disagree shall we?


Edited by Blue Monkey, 13 October 2013 - 03:40 PM.


#22 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:02 PM

Fine Keith - you used the phrase 'partly the problem' - I have thought about it and I will completely admit to the pure skills of the players of the past but I do feel that the (sorry to use the phrase) athleticism of todays players adds to the value of rugby league - and if their is one thing I am proud about, it is I was lucky enough to be a Swinton supporter in the 60s, but as I am now into my 70s I realise things do move on

 

Blimey '63, you're even owder than I am (67).  Permit me to tell you about a little 'confrontation' I had at Keighley a few seasons back when I spotted an obvious Leeds fan (wearing a Loiners' blue and gold replica jersey) with his young son at half time. A bit puzzled, I turned to him and said "What's a Leeds (Super League) fan doing at this lowly match then" His quick reply has remained with me since that day. "I've come to watch rugby league as it should be played" i.e not like they do in Super League.

So, you see, there are some of us out there who DO go to the same 'opticians' - in the rugby league sense of the word.

 

PS. If you read my earlier posting again, you'll observe that I never used the line (which you attribute to me), "partly the problem"



#23 Spelly

Spelly
  • Coach
  • 1,807 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:38 PM

John, don't have a myocardial infarction, I totally agree with you on the point about Morty/Blan/Gowers re place kicking.

 

But the literal meaning of the word 'foot' bears no real connection with the true meaning of the word rugby footballers. After all, many, if not most, athletes have always 'played with the foot' so to speak.

 

You and I are different people, seeing things in different ways. Let's just agree to disagree shall we?

 

Touché mon ami!

 

Spelly.


Edited by Spelly, 13 October 2013 - 04:40 PM.

"--- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

Daily, my intense dislike of the Pinks, Rugby Yawnion, Manchester United, and far-right politics, grows ever larger, and will continue to do so forever more!

Question! What's the connection between Rugby League and Rugby Yawnion? Answer! There isn't one!

My girl-friend asked "If you had to choose between me and Swinton who would it be?" I replied "You know the answer to that one without even asking!"


#24 GLENNGARY

GLENNGARY
  • Coach
  • 233 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

Blue Monkey I agree with you 100% and yes Spelly i'd race back to the late fifties and early sixties and not only for the rugby but for a better era fullstop. Back to the rugby however the only thing I would take back is a fitness program.Can you imagine what the great Lions team of the early sixties would have been like if they had been given todays training facilities. Remember Spelly when the Lions were creating all those magic tries the opposition wasn't standing as far back as they do now. And as for the comparison of Mort and Gowers, don't make me laugh!. Mort is a better goalkicker but as to an alround fullback Mort isn't in the same class as Gowers neither is Tomkins who although is slightly better on attack than Gowers is nowhere near as good as Gowers was on defence. Any idea where theres a time machine BlueMonkey?

#25 lionsfanusa

lionsfanusa
  • Coach
  • 416 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:42 PM

Greetings from Vermont on a nice sunny fall Sunday afternoon! The leaves are red and the tourists are in town!

Some of you, like me, missed out on years of RL because of circumstances under our control.

I believe it gives you a different perspective than if you have watched every Lions match for the last, what is it Spelly, 30 years?

In the same way all my nephews and nieces have gone from being kids of four to parents of kids of four in the twenty years since I last saw them until my recent visit, RL has gone from what it was in 1967 to what it is today, bit by bit.

Seen through my eyes, it wasn't incremental in either case, it was a step-wise jump from then to now, but with an occasional glimpse in between.

I read on here about big overweight prop forwards who couldn't run to save their lives! Arnold Thompson, anyone? That wasn't their job. Their job was to ensure we won the ball from the scrum. And don't get me started on scrums...... an integral part of rugby of either code, in my opinion. Play the ball? Doesn't happen. Forward passes? Rife. Offside? All the time. 

So I prefer RL as RL was, not as it is.

 

The eternal argument as to whether Gowers was a better player than Tomkins can never be resolved, so I'm not going there, whoever the discussion is about. 

 

There's a bigger picture here.

If someone like me, gone 40 years, was parachuted into Salford Stadium, or whatever it's called, during a Sales Sharks match, would the game be a reasonably close version of what I might have seen before I left? Try the same thing with the Salford Reds. There has been one significant rule change that dramatically affected RU, the change to professionalism. Otherwise the game is more or less what it was. Does consistency breed loyalty?

 

Now, ask yourselves this question, which is the better supported code, better managed, better promoted? Which one's in the Olympics coming up? Which one has British Lions? Tours down under? 

Like it or not, I believe overall RL is a pale shadow of its former self and on a downward spiral.

None of which stops me from shelling out my hard earned money one or twice a year to see the Lions play, but if it wasn't the Lions, I'd not be interested.


Posted Image

#26 class of 63

class of 63
  • Coach
  • 250 posts

Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:46 PM

Blimey '63, you're even owder than I am (67).  Permit me to tell you about a little 'confrontation' I had at Keighley a few seasons back when I spotted an obvious Leeds fan (wearing a Loiners' blue and gold replica jersey) with his young son at half time. A bit puzzled, I turned to him and said "What's a Leeds (Super League) fan doing at this lowly match then" His quick reply has remained with me since that day. "I've come to watch rugby league as it should be played" i.e not like they do in Super League.

So, you see, there are some of us out there who DO go to the same 'opticians' - in the rugby league sense of the word.

 

PS. If you read my earlier posting again, you'll observe that I never used the line (which you attribute to me), "partly the problem"

 

Keith you said...

"Athletes" yes, exactly, that's what the top players are nowadays and that's partly the problem in my eyes. The "F" inRLFC used to stand for rugby "football", a game played by rugby "footballers", result great entertainment. Nowadays we have more and more "athletes" turning out, result, a far less entertaining product.

 

 

yes Keith I am older than you but that does not make me any wiser and the great thing about this forum is we all can have and dscuss our varying opinions - I like you you have great memories from the sixties and before  and my heroes will always be Gowers,Buckley,Stopford, Parkinson,Wiliiams etc etc and these guys will always represent my greatest era in watching rugby league - an era when our team was the best in rugby league - but I would like to think I can move on and appreciate the quality of the sport I still love and watch



#27 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

Keith you said...

"Athletes" yes, exactly, that's what the top players are nowadays and that's partly the problem

 

 

 

Apologies '63, I did say 'partly the problem', but it did not appear in the section you highlighted, but in an earlier piece instead.

 

'Move on' - very common piece of terminology these days I suppose.

 

:bye:



#28 Bleep1673

Bleep1673
  • Coach
  • 3,430 posts

Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:25 AM

I think some on this thread miss the days of the likes of Steve Pitchford barrelling in for a three yard gain on a cold rainy Thursday night Lancashire Cup replay in the middle of November & think that's how all Rugby League players should be aspiring towards. If you DO think that, then a close look at the RFU website will show you where you nearest rah-rah game is being played & you can plod along to that.

 

Superleague is the pinnacle of an players career, whether you want to call him an athlete or not. As such we should respect SL, until the day we can field a team that beats a SL team in a competitive match

 

 

I would also like to point out that when I was living in the North, and I had a car, I would sometimes get to three matches in a weekend, including the Lions of course, to to learn, and take in the atmosphere, the next generation of Swinton born Ebgland players are not going to learn by watching their home town team, because we don't play at home, they will learn from travelling to the likes of Wigan, Warrington, and St. Helens (Maybe even the Pinks), if they want to learn how to play.

 

A lot is spoken on here about Folly Lane ARLFC, do all those players go to watch Swinton alone, to gain some insight into how to play?

 

David, Hastings


Edited by Bleep1673, 14 October 2013 - 10:31 AM.

Swinton RLFC est 1866 - Supplying England with players when most of your clubs were in nappies

#29 mark richardson

mark richardson
  • Coach
  • 2,978 posts

Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

Blue Monkey I agree with you 100% and yes Spelly i'd race back to the late fifties and early sixties and not only for the rugby but for a better era fullstop. Back to the rugby however the only thing I would take back is a fitness program.Can you imagine what the great Lions team of the early sixties would have been like if they had been given todays training facilities. Remember Spelly when the Lions were creating all those magic tries the opposition wasn't standing as far back as they do now. And as for the comparison of Mort and Gowers, don't make me laugh!. Mort is a better goalkicker but as to an alround fullback Mort isn't in the same class as Gowers neither is Tomkins who although is slightly better on attack than Gowers is nowhere near as good as Gowers was on defence. Any idea where theres a time machine BlueMonkey?

You raise an interesting point about five yards versus ten metres at the play the ball.

I would argue that exact thing is why the game had more break away and length of the pitch tries because once the defence is breached then youre away under the old rules. 

Ive often said that perhaps it should be trialled again. 

What do you think?



#30 wayne_r

wayne_r
  • Coach
  • 380 posts

Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

Actually right now on the BBC website there is footage from the Great Britain vs Australia World Cup final played in 1960 at Bradford.........now the tries came from fast flowing movements at time when players were all part time and not as "fit" as they are today, also players did not have the luxury of 10 meters rule, no interference at the play the ball and had to actually play the ball rather than step over it and roll it back. Ok the scrums were untidy but competitive and had the added interest that a good hooker could occasionally win the ball against the head.

 

I cannot apologise when I say that  I simply do not like the Super League product - yes it is the pinnacle of the game - but I prefer the older rules - partly because that's when I played but also because I believe it produced players that were more creative and less athletic.........already got my fingers in my ears.....:)



#31 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

.........already got my fingers in my ears..... :)

 

Yes, I know the feeling Wayne   :bye:



#32 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

Greetings from Vermont on a nice sunny fall Sunday afternoon! The leaves are red and the tourists are in town!

Some of you, like me, missed out on years of RL because of circumstances under our control.

I believe it gives you a different perspective than if you have watched every Lions match for the last, what is it Spelly, 30 years?

In the same way all my nephews and nieces have gone from being kids of four to parents of kids of four in the twenty years since I last saw them until my recent visit, RL has gone from what it was in 1967 to what it is today, bit by bit.

Seen through my eyes, it wasn't incremental in either case, it was a step-wise jump from then to now, but with an occasional glimpse in between.

I read on here about big overweight prop forwards who couldn't run to save their lives! Arnold Thompson, anyone? That wasn't their job. Their job was to ensure we won the ball from the scrum. And don't get me started on scrums...... an integral part of rugby of either code, in my opinion. Play the ball? Doesn't happen. Forward passes? Rife. Offside? All the time. 

So I prefer RL as RL was, not as it is.

 

The eternal argument as to whether Gowers was a better player than Tomkins can never be resolved, so I'm not going there, whoever the discussion is about. 

 

There's a bigger picture here.

If someone like me, gone 40 years, was parachuted into Salford Stadium, or whatever it's called, during a Sales Sharks match, would the game be a reasonably close version of what I might have seen before I left? Try the same thing with the Salford Reds. There has been one significant rule change that dramatically affected RU, the change to professionalism. Otherwise the game is more or less what it was. Does consistency breed loyalty?

 

Now, ask yourselves this question, which is the better supported code, better managed, better promoted? Which one's in the Olympics coming up? Which one has British Lions? Tours down under? 

Like it or not, I believe overall RL is a pale shadow of its former self and on a downward spiral.

None of which stops me from shelling out my hard earned money one or twice a year to see the Lions play, but if it wasn't the Lions, I'd not be interested.

 

Some very good points here Geoff - most of which sound very familiar to my ‘ears’.

Tomkins? Excellent player, BUT, a lot of woeful defending (non existent really) contribute to make him look even better

 

:tease:



#33 steve wild

steve wild
  • Coach
  • 583 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:28 PM

So everything better now apart from the tackling eh Spelly?

#34 Blue Monkey

Blue Monkey
  • Coach
  • 1,720 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

Actually right now on the BBC website there is footage from the Great Britain vs Australia World Cup final played in 1960 at Bradford.... 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/24413931

 

:shout:

 

Mud, mud, glorious mud - (the old days at Odsal)


Edited by Blue Monkey, 15 October 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#35 Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster
  • Coach
  • 1,681 posts

Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

Bleep1673 Folly Lane are blessed with decent coach's throughout the club and I don't think they would learn an awful lot more by just watching Swinton. Maybe if Swinton brought new ideas to their training sessions that might make a difference. Folly players certainly would not learn any more by watching Super Greed because it is an entirely different game then Rugby League. I also watch at least 3 games most weekends, including juniors, but that never includes Super Greed. Folly are not my club by the way, and are in fact rivals, but credit where it is due they do a great job in the Swinton area. Good luck to Ian Watson - a great guy and to Swinton for the coming season, except when you play Crusaders!






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users