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Proposed SL and Championships 2015


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#21 Griff

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

It's easy to be altruistic and a steadfast supporter of the broader game when you aren't one of the successful clubs. I would respectfully suggest that if Batley were getting 5000 gates and likely to gain access to a higher division then the tune you would be whistling would be a different one.

 

Or maybe I'm just an old cynic?

 

Agree.


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#22 phildog

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

If it were only true the the championship clubs were nurseries for SL!In the old days yes, top clubs would scout the lower teams for promising players but these days it's very rare, most of the movement is the other way. We all know that for the most part, when looking for a player to plug a particular gap, the cheque book comes out and the NRL is the big gainer, not the game here in this country. There is no transfer system as such now that players are on contracts and are free to move at the end for nothing. Yes, it's great to see the odd player move up to SL but there's no financial incentive to championship clubs to breed prospective SL players and certainly no benefit to the club when they've gone. A transfer fee for a decent player can mean the earth to a club and stop them having to exist on coppers, but with the current system more clubs will be finding it hard to keep their heads above water. After all, if SL teams, with all the financial incentives they have, are knocking on Red Hall's door, what chance do the likes of Hemel and Oxford have? Sorry that's probably a poor choice of example as I'm sure they're currently getting development aid etc, but you get my meaning.

#23 Blind side johnny

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:35 PM

If it were only true the the championship clubs were nurseries for SL!In the old days yes, top clubs would scout the lower teams for promising players but these days it's very rare, most of the movement is the other way. We all know that for the most part, when looking for a player to plug a particular gap, the cheque book comes out and the NRL is the big gainer, not the game here in this country. There is no transfer system as such now that players are on contracts and are free to move at the end for nothing. Yes, it's great to see the odd player move up to SL but there's no financial incentive to championship clubs to breed prospective SL players and certainly no benefit to the club when they've gone. A transfer fee for a decent player can mean the earth to a club and stop them having to exist on coppers, but with the current system more clubs will be finding it hard to keep their heads above water. After all, if SL teams, with all the financial incentives they have, are knocking on Red Hall's door, what chance do the likes of Hemel and Oxford have? Sorry that's probably a poor choice of example as I'm sure they're currently getting development aid etc, but you get my meaning.

 

 

In general I would agree that the lower clubs get a poor deal from SL clubs for players that they have developed, yet on the other hand these clubs themselves have a woeful record in compensating amateur clubs for the players that they themselves cherry-pick, Plus ca change.................


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#24 phildog

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:34 PM

I can only speak from my own experience; in the mid-80's I was club secretary of a local amateur club and Batley took a player from us, and were quick to pay the required fee as laid down by BARLA at the time, but I suppose there may have been occasions as you suggest. However there's a vast difference between the costs involved running an amateur team out of a pub, and even the newest of professional clubs makes it more neccesary that the lower teams are treated with respect.

#25 RPH

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:15 PM

There's a lot of dreamers posting on this thread.

 

Can we not just accept that sometimes decisions go against us but we don't need to take our proverbial bats home like spoilt kids ?

at least the RFL will tell us there will be no chance at all of getting promoted.....before the event.....rather than after it....like after our promotion back in 1995..


Edited by RPH, 09 October 2013 - 11:18 PM.


#26 Griff

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

So you think the RFL is a democracy???

 

You must be delusional Griff or indeed very naive. Please tell me how the SL clubs' 2 votes to the Championship clubs 1 vote could be classed as a democracy????

 

 

The current voting system was voted in by clubs on a one club one vote basis.

 

Either way, whatever the voting system, sometimes it's not going to go your way.  As we've seen this week, there's a split between the $uperleague clubs pretty much down the middle.


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#27 grumpyoldram

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:46 AM

I didn't realise that the whole restructuring proposals had been "scuppered".

 

I thought they'd just postponed a meeting.

 

Sorry Griff - when I said scuppered, I really meant deferred - deferred until the SL rebels have persuaded the other SL chairmen that their best interests would be served by maintaining the status quo. With this in mind the restructuring will be as follows :

SL1 will be composed of the existing SL clubs with no change in funding, and none of that silly P ad R stuff.

SL2 will be composed of next years championship teams minus the relegated teams (but maybe with another French club) - Oh and no extra funding

The Championship will be composed of anybody that's left plus those who went fat rascals up in 2014 (could be a big division then).

 

Sorted.



#28 Griff

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

How do you think the Rams would fare in $uperleague ?


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#29 Blind side johnny

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:34 PM

Sorry Griff - when I said scuppered, I really meant deferred - deferred until the SL rebels have persuaded the other SL chairmen that their best interests would be served by maintaining the status quo. With this in mind the restructuring will be as follows :

SL1 will be composed of the existing SL clubs with no change in funding, and none of that silly P ad R stuff.

SL2 will be composed of next years championship teams minus the relegated teams (but maybe with another French club) - Oh and no extra funding

The Championship will be composed of anybody that's left plus those who went fat rascals up in 2014 (could be a big division then).

 

Sorted.

 

 

You may be right GOR but the SL clubs are under pressure from Sky to introduce greater "jeopardy" into the competition. The 2015 season signals the end of the current franchising system which is rumoured to be about to be scrapped, and will probably be replaced with a one up, one down system, i.e. some risk, but not too much.

 

What is decided here will determine whether Koukash continues to support Salford, Hughes continues to support London etc. It may also cast a bit of a shadow on Featherstone's money men, who can tell. Whatever happens it will be messy and temporarily damaging to the sport as a whole.


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#30 grumpyoldram

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:17 PM

How do you think the Rams would fare in $uperleague ?

 

Despite the optimism of the chairman they wouldn't. Unless of course I win the £30 million euro lottery rollover, in which case we will at least have a decent team - Oh hang on, I'm not in it. Not being cynical, just realistic, and to be honest I don't think the better supported championship clubs will fare much better. Let's face it, if a club like Wigan has to flog off its ground to Tesco to avoid liquidation, and the well supported Bulls were (and possibly still are) staring down the barrel, then how are Fev, Fax and Leigh going to fare even with the help of a sugar daddy. Pie in the SKY.



#31 grumpyoldram

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:22 PM

You may be right GOR but the SL clubs are under pressure from Sky to introduce greater "jeopardy" into the competition. The 2015 season signals the end of the current franchising system which is rumoured to be about to be scrapped, and will probably be replaced with a one up, one down system, i.e. some risk, but not too much.

 

What is decided here will determine whether Koukash continues to support Salford, Hughes continues to support London etc. It may also cast a bit of a shadow on Featherstone's money men, who can tell. Whatever happens it will be messy and temporarily damaging to the sport as a whole.

I think one up one down with a huge parachute payment to ensure the relegated club only spend a season in the championship would be acceptable to most SL clubs - and of course Catalan and London would have to be immune from the drop for the sake of expansionism. Can't think why they haven't thought about it before. :sclerosis:  :D



#32 RPH

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:08 PM

The current voting system was voted in by clubs on a one club one vote basis.

 

Either way, whatever the voting system, sometimes it's not going to go your way.  As we've seen this week, there's a split between the $uperleague clubs pretty much down the middle.

Do you happen to know which clubs voted this in ?.....and basically created a superleague closed shop.....that no one can now undo ....



#33 Piggy's mate

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:12 PM

Do you happen to know which clubs voted this in ?.....and basically created a superleague closed shop.....that no one can now undo ....

 

Hmmm, perhaps we should do the same to keep the likes of York and Hunslet from bothering us again :sclerosis:


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#34 Griff

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:27 PM

Do you happen to know which clubs voted this in ?.....and basically created a superleague closed shop.....that no one can now undo ....

 

No, it was a long time ago.

 

No one can undo ?  No one club can undo it - but then, they never could, could they ?  But get the required majority and anything can be changed.


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#35 Griff

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

Despite the optimism of the chairman they wouldn't. Unless of course I win the £30 million euro lottery rollover, in which case we will at least have a decent team - Oh hang on, I'm not in it. Not being cynical, just realistic, and to be honest I don't think the better supported championship clubs will fare much better. Let's face it, if a club like Wigan has to flog off its ground to Tesco to avoid liquidation, and the well supported Bulls were (and possibly still are) staring down the barrel, then how are Fev, Fax and Leigh going to fare even with the help of a sugar daddy. Pie in the SKY.

 

Strange - many of us complain about not being able to get promoted to $uperleague, knowing full well that our clubs wouldn't be able to cope if they did.


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#36 Blind side johnny

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:20 PM

Strange - many of us complain about not being able to get promoted to $uperleague, knowing full well that our clubs wouldn't be able to cope if they did.

 

 

Some of us remember the last time our club (Dewsbury in this case) was in the top tier, pre-SL, and the unmitigated disaster that was. I would not want to see a repeat of that for any of the lesser clubs.


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#37 Keith T

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

SL clubs don't get double Championship clubs in the voting system, they get one vote plus a percentage vote to bring their number equal to the number of Championship clubs who get one vote. There are 14 SL clubs and 23 Championship so the SL clubs get the 9 votes difference divide between them as extra votes.

If all the SL clubs agreed with Lenegan it would only need one Championship club to vote with them and they would carry the day. That certainly puts a different slant on the "partnerships" that were being set up last season!!!

Edited by Keith T, 10 October 2013 - 07:58 PM.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#38 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:26 AM

SL clubs don't get double Championship clubs in the voting system, they get one vote plus a percentage vote to bring their number equal to the number of Championship clubs who get one vote. There are 14 SL clubs and 23 Championship so the SL clubs get the 9 votes difference divide between them as extra votes.If all the SL clubs agreed with Lenegan it would only need one Championship club to vote with them and they would carry the day. That certainly puts a different slant on the "partnerships" that were being set up last season!!!


Would they not need a 75% majority To carry the vote Keith? It's in the back of my mind somewhere that this is the case but I could well be wrong.
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#39 phildog

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:00 AM

James Colin - if only championship clubs were feeder/nursery clubs but these days that's rarely the case. There aren't many championship players who get the chance to step up these days. we've been lucky (or unlucky whichever way you look at it) to have provided Brown, Walmsley, Walton, Johnson a leg up, Hunslet to Yates, Swinton to Hill but I'm struggling to name any more. Aus, NZ PNG are all scoured first. Re finance to Championship clubs via Sky, it has been stated above that the amount is negigible, and thanks BT Sport, where's our coverage? You've looked after the Ra Ra boys and the Premier League. I do realise also that there is no money in Premier Sports coverage so where would the money come from to form a new organisation. It would be interesting to know how championship clubs are actually funded, other than their own boards' efforts and gate income. Anybody able to give a run-down of what they receive via RFL etc?

#40 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

James Colin - if only championship clubs were feeder/nursery clubs but these days that's rarely the case. There aren't many championship players who get the chance to step up these days. we've been lucky (or unlucky whichever way you look at it) to have provided Brown, Walmsley, Walton, Johnson a leg up, Hunslet to Yates, Swinton to Hill but I'm struggling to name any more. Aus, NZ PNG are all scoured first. Re finance to Championship clubs via Sky, it has been stated above that the amount is negigible, and thanks BT Sport, where's our coverage? You've looked after the Ra Ra boys and the Premier League. I do realise also that there is no money in Premier Sports coverage so where would the money come from to form a new organisation. It would be interesting to know how championship clubs are actually funded, other than their own boards' efforts and gate income. Anybody able to give a run-down of what they receive via RFL etc?

 

 

Good question. I too would be very interested in these details,


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