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Who'd have thought it?


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#21 Johnoco

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:04 PM

Actually there has always been very few people with no intelligence but plenty with bad education.

There has definitely been a lot of people with little intelligence. But there was always big factories where they could get jobs pressing buttons. Most of those factories and buttons are now gone.

#22 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

There has definitely been a lot of people with little intelligence. But there was always big factories where they could get jobs pressing buttons. Most of those factories and buttons are now gone.


Are you really saying that people who work(ed) in factories lack intelligence? That someones class/socio-economic status is related to their intelligence?

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#23 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

Are you really saying that people who work(ed) in factories lack intelligence? That someones class/socio-economic status is related to their intelligence?

I think he is saying that some folk who worked in factories lack intelligence.

 

Now everybody knows that intelligence isn't solely about socio-economic status or vice versa but to say that there is no relationship is OTT.



#24 Johnoco

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

Are you really saying that people who work(ed) in factories lack intelligence? That someones class/socio-economic status is related to their intelligence?

How do you arrive at that? I work (or did) in a factory.
I am pointing out that there have always been a large number of people with not much intelligence. Not thick just not very bright.

What happened to them was not a concern for the authorities because they could gain decent employment in a large factory doing straightforward button pushing jobs. Those jobs aren't really there now for unskilled people so there is an issue what these people can do. So we have people highlighting it as though it is a new phenomena to have not very bright people.

#25 dhw

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

The report from the OECD the other day, that branded our 16-24 years olds as borderline tree stumps, suggests the "normal" schools arent much cop either.

The report said nothing like that. What it did suggest that there was a disparity between schools in pooer socio-econic areas compared to the more advantaged communities. Also the performance between densely populated communities was and the suburan and rural communities was significant. When the socio-economic factors were removed state and privately run schools seemed to have roughly the same performance.



#26 dhw

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:58 PM

Are you really saying that people who work(ed) in factories lack intelligence? That someones class/socio-economic status is related to their intelligence?

There is definitely a link to the the quality of education they would receive in the UK. Also people from such a background would be more likely to have had poorer diet/nutrition and an environemnt less conducive to developing intelligence in their formative years.



#27 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:08 PM

There is definitely a link to the the quality of education they would receive in the UK. Also people from such a background would be more likely to have had poorer diet/nutrition and an environemnt less conducive to developing intelligence in their formative years.


The developmental issue is a valid point and there is a growing body of research including prenatal development, but it is far from conclusive. However, it is important to be clear that intelligence is not about level of education or knowledge which is how I read the post I was responding too. In controlled studies there is no evidence that class correlates with intelligence.

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#28 dhw

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:22 PM

The developmental issue is a valid point and there is a growing body of research including prenatal development, but it is far from conclusive. However, it is important to be clear that intelligence is not about level of education or knowledge which is how I read the post I was responding too. In controlled studies there is no evidence that class correlates with intelligence.

Yes people hear seem to consider academic and intelligence as the same thing, but intelligent and motivated people the majority of the time excel academically given the right environment. I was not talking about class specifically but more the environment intelligence tends to be developed at a young age and nutrition contributes to that as does the cognitive stimulation of a child.

 

Out of interest how did those studies measure intelligence ?



#29 archibald

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

Facts are facts.

 

People who set up schools on a whim are unlikely to be good at running schools.

Only if the staff they employ are fools. It's the same with any "business" set up, if you don't employ people who are remotely competent you're stuffed.

 

http://www.lancashir..._Darwen_school/

 

http://www.lancashir..._school/?ref=ar

 

http://www.blackburn..._Ofsted_report/

 

Not one of these is a free school.



#30 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:23 AM

Down with Free Schools... All hail 'Parent Led Teaching Academies' !


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#31 nadera78

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:11 AM

Down with Free Schools... All hail 'Parent Led Teaching Academies' !

Just when I think I'm going to have to vote Labour to stop the Tories getting back in, they come along and open their mouths.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
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#32 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:14 AM

Just when I think I'm going to have to vote Labour to stop the Tories getting back in, they come along and open their mouths.

It's OK they are going to be tougher on Welfare than the tories too...  I'm sure that will get you back on side!


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#33 gingerjon

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:15 PM

Down with Free Schools... All hail 'Parent Led Teaching Academies' !

 

Absolutely baffling.  This week they could actually use this to their advantage and suddenly *in the name of choice* ... oh, I give up.


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#34 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

So in the space of a few days we have -

 

New Shadow minister reversing opposition to free schools. (Tristram Hunt)

New Shadow minister reversing opposition on £26K benefit cap. (Rachel Reeves)

New Shadow Public Health minister being a homeopathy supporter. (Luciana Berger)

 

As reshuffles go.... it's not the greatest start!


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#35 Northern Sol

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:53 PM

In controlled studies there is no evidence that class correlates with intelligence.


link?

#36 Larry the Leit

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

The Labour Party are handing he election to the moronic Cameron on a plate.
The Unicorn is not a Goose,

#37 distantdog

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:56 PM

For me, this just emphasises the problem of how our education system is viewed by a ruling class. For Gove, his aim is to try to replicate the public school system in the state school system. His reference to creating more dynamism to reflect the public school system is misguided though. Many state schools are dynamic and exciting places to be. Many fee paying schools are dull and systemic places to be.

 

State schools are constricted by the drive for achieving high achievement results (through data specifically and randomly set targets) at the expense of the wider enriched curriculum. If they are perceived to be failing, they receive the full force of external judgement through Ofsted and HMI. This has the further result of creating an atmosphere of energy sapping fear and stress at leadership and teacher level.

 

Children as young as three are subject to assessment and compared to national norms, which has always struck me as rather Kafkasesque. This is continued at Year 1 with the phonics test where children are labelled as successful or as failures. I believe this to be misguided at best and harmful at worst.

 

Finally, as an 'aged' head teacher, it is mystifying to think that someone could lead a school effectively with relatively scant school leadership experience on the back of perceived expertise in curriculum. For me, leadership is all about people, not curriculum or systems.






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