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Eddy Pettybourne called up for USA


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#21 burnleywelsh

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:47 PM

The person born in Italy is more Italian.
 
If not, what you're suggesting is that Britney Spears is as or more English than Nigel Benn? That John Howard is as or more English than Tariq Ali?


So England football international Terry Butcher is more Singaporean (?) than he is English ?

#22 burnleywelsh

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:51 PM

And Bradley Wiggins is far more Belgian than he is English!!

#23 ChrisGS

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:32 AM

So England football international Terry Butcher is more Singaporean (?) than he is English ?

 

Being born somewhere and moving at a very early age is a bit different imo. If you grow up in a country, in my view, that's as good as being born and raised there. Don't think the birth element is all that important actually, more so being raised somewhere for me.

 

Born in Burnley general but raised in Brierfield - Never a Burnley-er.



#24 YCKonstantine

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:23 AM

Think of it this way, the amount of Indian and Polish families you see around with their young children. The children were born in England but their Mums and Dads talk to them in Indian/Polish, they eat Indian/Polish food they might even watch Indian/Polish TV at home, even music!

  Now to me, I would say for instance, that kid is Polish. They have a Polish name, speak Polish, everything I assume a normal child would do in Poland they're just living in a different country. Surely this must be the case for most if not all the Italian squad. Bit harder to say for the Americans as Aus and USA isn't a massive lifestyle change. 

 

  Maybe all that's a bit more obvious to me having lived in a building where the Polish outnumbered the English 2:1. And also when I take my daughter to playgroup and the park etc.


It's time to park the camels.


#25 burnleywelsh

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:44 AM

Being born somewhere and moving at a very early age is a bit different imo. If you grow up in a country, in my view, that's as good as being born and raised there. Don't think the birth element is all that important actually, more so being raised somewhere for me.
 
Born in Burnley general but raised in Brierfield - Never a Burnley-er.


My lad, also born in Burnley General, raised in Brierclffe, Welshman through and through ! Doesn't matter where he's raised.

#26 boxhead

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:57 AM

If you live in a Country long term and take the benefits of that Country that should be where you call home and should be the country you represent.


Edited by AndyCapp, 17 October 2013 - 10:00 AM.


#27 ChrisGS

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:40 PM

My lad, also born in Burnley General, raised in Brierclffe, Welshman through and through ! Doesn't matter where he's raised.

 

Can't agree. If I moved to Morocco and had a child, would that child be a Lancastrian?

 

Think of it this way, the amount of Indian and Polish families you see around with their young children. The children were born in England but their Mums and Dads talk to them in Indian/Polish, they eat Indian/Polish food they might even watch Indian/Polish TV at home, even music!

  Now to me, I would say for instance, that kid is Polish. They have a Polish name, speak Polish, everything I assume a normal child would do in Poland they're just living in a different country. Surely this must be the case for most if not all the Italian squad. Bit harder to say for the Americans as Aus and USA isn't a massive lifestyle change. 

 

  Maybe all that's a bit more obvious to me having lived in a building where the Polish outnumbered the English 2:1. And also when I take my daughter to playgroup and the park etc.

 

But if we agree and say that the criteria you're using is right, the logical conclusion of the argument would be that most of the Aussies playing for Italy shouldn't be there. How many of them speak Italian, watch Italian TV, or even are 2nd generation and are culturally Italian in any other ways?

 

Not saying I agree with you, but even if we do hold opposite opinions isn't the conclusion the same? If nothing else you'd have to concede, by your own measure, that the Aussies selected are significantly less Italian than a number of Italian players(in Italy) who could have been selected?

 

No problem with some of the Kiwis/Aussies who represent the Island nations, in theory I'm not against some guys representing two nations (Uate, for example) but the Pettybourne decision and Italian squad is a couple of steps too far in my view.

 

Anyway can't see much universal agreement on the topic.



#28 YCKonstantine

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:33 PM

How many of them speak Italian, watch Italian TV, or even are 2nd generation and are culturally Italian in any other ways?

You'd have to ask.


It's time to park the camels.


#29 burnleywelsh

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:43 PM

Can't agree. If I moved to Morocco and had a child, would that child be a Lancastrian?



But if we agree and say that the criteria you're using is right, the logical conclusion of the argument would be that most of the Aussies playing for Italy shouldn't be there. How many of them speak Italian, watch Italian TV, or even are 2nd generation and are culturally Italian in any other ways?

Not saying I agree with you, but even if we do hold opposite opinions isn't the conclusion the same? If nothing else you'd have to concede, by your own measure, that the Aussies selected are significantly less Italian than a number of Italian players(in Italy) who could have been selected?

No problem with some of the Kiwis/Aussies who represent the Island nations, in theory I'm not against some guys representing two nations (Uate, for example) but the Pettybourne decision and Italian squad is a couple of steps too far in my view.

Anyway can't see much universal agreement on the topic.

No, but he'd be English (presuming you are English). Lancashire is not a country, as wonderful as it is ;)

I've got no idea how 'Italian' the heritage players are, but they are Italian enough to qualify and Italian enough to want to play for Italy. I thought the whole idea of picking an international team was to pick the best available not who is the most Italian. We'll agree to disagree ;)

Edited by burnleywelsh, 17 October 2013 - 06:45 PM.


#30 ehbandit

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/24522180 nice little article

#31 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

It is an issue that a lot of sports are having to deal with at the moment and I think none more so than our own.

The principle behind heritage players is not controversial in my opinion. Nationality is a far more fluid concept than simply where you were born and this needs to be reflected in the make up of sporting national teams. What has a bigger influence on your nationality, your parents or your place of birth? When you look at a place like America, in the past and still to an extent today, they would identify with their ancestral homeland.

I'm about to have a child that will be born in England to an English father and Irish mother. It wouldn't surprise me if they grew up to identify more with their Irish heritage as they spend a lot of time there and have a large Irish family.

Then you have an instance like Fa'asavalu, a player that had only ever played RL in England and wanted to represent England, which after all was the original purpose of the national team.

I think the problem comes when this well intended process is abused as it inevitably is. In other sports you see athletes choosing to represent nations because of funding or for the opportunity to play in more high-profile games. Then you have the ludicrous concept of nation switching, where people can play for different nations when the circumstances arise. The idea of nationality isn't that fluid that you can be cheering on one nation all your life and then choose to play for a different one.

Representative international sport isn't supposed to be like club sport and be about who you can technically get to play for you. It's supposed to be purer than that and be about representing the nationality that you are proud of on the world stage. I've less of a problem with people that make a choice and stick with it, doing their all for that country across their career. It's the people that only find out they are eligible and come for a tournament or two that cheapen international sport.

#32 Human Punk

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

I don't mind him playing for the US. What I don't understand is how he could play for Samoa if he's from American Samoa.



#33 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

I can accept the emerging nations using these types of loopholes but only if after the tournament is finished a thorough review takes place with the aim of implementing something that assitss the development of players in the domestic leagues.

#34 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:13 PM

I can accept the emerging nations using these types of loopholes but only if after the tournament is finished a thorough review takes place with the aim of implementing something that assitss the development of players in the domestic leagues.


I think we'd all like to see this. There has to be some way to stop players from flip-flopping nations like we see so often. Also, we want to encourage players to stay in the game and give them something to aim towards. That was what annoyed me the most about the USA situation, players that have given their all but are then looked over when it matters.




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