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An example of a fair and open market


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#21 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

For one thing the basic commodity price has not risen by 9%.


That's a big issue. As far as I can see, we don't actually know how much these companies pay for their gas. Do you?

Of course the real answer is to cut our reliance on imported energy, which is why we have to go nuclear, shale gas, wind, hydro, tidal etc. Unless of course that nice Mr Miliband is able to reverse the effects of say gravity. He has as much chance of doing that as he has in trying to freeze gas prices.


Actually I do know a lot about the gas supply industry, I work for a large gas consumer and the gas price is linked heavily to our production costs. the commodity price has not increased considerably over the last year certainly nowhere near 9%. (Now you can believe that I'm taking Internet ###### if you want but don't even think I'm going to give out our gas prices on this forum)

Of course we will use the 'increase in gas prices to justify out lack of profits etc'.

There is another player in this game that is stealing money and that is the compleat private monopoly of National Grid, creaming a cut off every MJ i of gas whilst not maintaining an ageing supply network.

#22 archibald

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:14 PM

I await Archibald's response defending them

Defending them for putting their prices up? They don't need defending. I suppose in an ideal world I'd like them to collapse their prices to zero, but that isn't gonna happen anytime soon. As soon as someone gives me a full breakdown of prices paid last year for their business compared to this year, then I'll save my moral outrage for something else. My price is fixed for the next couple of years, my bills have increased over the years, but then my mortgage payments have fallen through the floor so it's swings and roundabouts.


Edited by archibald, 17 October 2013 - 10:14 PM.


#23 archibald

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:18 PM

Just as an aside, I have a BG Homecare agreement. Around half 5 on Sunday evening my boiler *popped* and the heating went off, a quick call, on a Sunday evening, and by 10am Monday it was fixed.

 

In the good old days of nationalisation, how long would I have had to wait?



#24 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:03 AM

Forever, as they did not offer such a service.



#25 Johnoco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:17 AM

Just as an aside, I have a BG Homecare agreement. Around half 5 on Sunday evening my boiler *popped* and the heating went off, a quick call, on a Sunday evening, and by 10am Monday it was fixed.

In the good old days of nationalisation, how long would I have had to wait?

You mean you pay £15 a month or whatever and they come out and fix it? What is unusual about them keeping their part of the deal?
Those deals are mainly a con because when it comes to fixing it they can come up with excuses like 'ah well we can't actually fix that unless you upgrade to our super duper package'

Tell you what I have done. Rather than put money into an endless pot, I have put some money to one side for such an emergency. Yes there may be trouble getting a plumber at busy times but when I did have cover and the heat exchanger went on my boiler, I had to wait for a week as they were prioritising the calls. Fair enough but it didn't help me out.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#26 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:00 AM

Actually I do know a lot about the gas supply industry, I work for a large gas consumer and the gas price is linked heavily to our production costs. the commodity price has not increased considerably over the last year certainly nowhere near 9%. (Now you can believe that I'm taking Internet ###### if you want but don't even think I'm going to give out our gas prices on this forum)

Of course we will use the 'increase in gas prices to justify out lack of profits etc'.

There is another player in this game that is stealing money and that is the compleat private monopoly of National Grid, creaming a cut off every MJ i of gas whilst not maintaining an ageing supply network.

 

 

I wasn't clear enough. I ,eamst what do BG (or anyone else) pay for their gas?  Anyway, most of it was answered in the doc that CKN linked to in the earlier post. The price of gas seems to have gone up 20% in the last 12 months. 



#27 Griff9of13

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:16 AM

Forever, as they did not offer such a service.

 

But no one did back then. Like Johnoco points out, it's a nice little earner (in fact probably a nice big earner). You pay £15 - £20 pm and, like what has just happened to me, they come out and tell you your're not covered for the fault you have anyway.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#28 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:25 AM

i've had British Gas cover for the last 8 years. They service it ( i.e check it, clean it, test it etc) once a year, and fix faults on the motorised valves, pump etc. Had 5 new motorised valves in 8 years no questions asked.  Well organised,  keep to their appointed time, call us when they are on their way etc.  Boiler 10 years ol dan no question of refusing to look after it.



#29 archibald

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:22 AM

You mean you pay £15 a month or whatever and they come out and fix it? What is unusual about them keeping their part of the deal?
Those deals are mainly a con because when it comes to fixing it they can come up with excuses like 'ah well we can't actually fix that unless you upgrade to our super duper package'

Tell you what I have done. Rather than put money into an endless pot, I have put some money to one side for such an emergency. Yes there may be trouble getting a plumber at busy times but when I did have cover and the heat exchanger went on my boiler, I had to wait for a week as they were prioritising the calls. Fair enough but it didn't help me out.

Nothing unusual at all, I was just surprised they had someone answering calls on a Sunday night and were then able to get someone to me the next morning.

 

I must have the only BG engineers who don't try to get me to upgrade to the "super duper package" as they've always fixed the problem quickly with no fuss.

 

I too, put money aside each month for such an emergency, hence my boiler being fixed in less than 24hrs. Now, if my boiler never breaks down it's been wasted money, but it has, 3 times.



#30 ckn

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:23 AM

I wasn't clear enough. I ,eamst what do BG (or anyone else) pay for their gas? Anyway, most of it was answered in the doc that CKN linked to in the earlier post. The price of gas seems to have gone up 20% in the last 12 months.

On my phone all day today so can't really look at the doc but there's a graph in there showing historical prices of gas. Look again at it and you'll see we're at the same wholesale price now as last year.

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#31 Johnoco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

Nothing unusual at all, I was just surprised they had someone answering calls on a Sunday night and were then able to get someone to me the next morning.

 

I must have the only BG engineers who don't try to get me to upgrade to the "super duper package" as they've always fixed the problem quickly with no fuss.

 

I too, put money aside each month for such an emergency, hence my boiler being fixed in less than 24hrs. Now, if my boiler never breaks down it's been wasted money, but it has, 3 times.

Isn't the deal a 24/7 one, so why would it be surprising that someone was working Sunday? You must be lucky because it's usually a case of 'sorry that isn't covered' or 'you will have to pay £X excess'. And if your boiler breaks down that much maybe they could tell you where you are going wrong?

 

As for putting money aside, once you have a reasonable amount you can stop and not endlessly pay out.


Edited by Johnoco, 18 October 2013 - 09:42 AM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#32 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:53 AM

On my phone all day today so can't really look at the doc but there's a graph in there showing historical prices of gas. Look again at it and you'll see we're at the same wholesale price now as last year.

 

Understood. When you zoom in though, that is not how it seems , hence wondering if there was a table somewhere.



#33 ckn

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

Understood. When you zoom in though, that is not how it seems , hence wondering if there was a table somewhere.

I'll have a dig around and see if I can find one.  It would be interesting...


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#34 ckn

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

Found one.  Looking at Excel spreadsheets on an iPhone is a challenge to say the least...

 

Link to Excel file of the data that went into comprising the government's Quarterly Energy Prices document

 

Prices of gas paid by UK power distributers and producers

2012 average price per KWh: 2.135p

Q2 2013 average price per KWh: 2.161p

A rise of 1.2% since 2012.

 

It does show real and justifiable links to why prices have gone up over the last decade or so but this year's 9% ish rises seem to be more than disproportionate.  Made especially disproportionate by Centrica making almost the same profit % rise as the % rise of their consumer gas bills.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#35 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:43 AM

Here is a chart I 've been looking for (in the public domain so i can put it on here). For the last 5 years the price has been down to 40p/therm and over the last few year it has stabilised to ~60p/therm. That was what I was insinuating in my previous posts.

 

The was a big hike in 2008 then a equal drop, but look what happen to the domestic price, no drop and big hikes for no equilvalent hike in wholesale prices.

 

http://www.consumerf...e-retail-prices

 

Wholesale-v-retail-gas4-1024x724.jpg



#36 Li0nhead

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:55 AM

Anyone switched yet?

Example ones I get on searching:

Not taking into account the latest rises if I switch gas/electric now I can save £177 a year on a fixed rate deal fixed till 30 Nov next year (no exit fees)

Or pay £51 a year more than I am current and get a fixed rate deal until 31 March 2017! Again no early exit fees.

Will end up switching its just weighing up the pros and cons.



#37 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:06 AM

Just switched to Scottish Power. Although CKN adheres to some strange political views, I do respect his views!  :biggrin:



#38 shrek

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

Given we've had government owned banks (and continue to do so) is there anything stopping them buying into the energy markets?

 

Not talking nationalisation, but I can't see a cap working, however, all it takes is one company of a reasonable size/profile to keep price rises down to make all the others fall into line, or so I'd imagine.



#39 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

Given we've had government owned banks (and continue to do so) is there anything stopping them buying into the energy markets?

Not talking nationalisation, but I can't see a cap working, however, all it takes is one company of a reasonable size/profile to keep price rises down to make all the others fall into line, or so I'd imagine.


That's a good point, but unless you buy a big primary producer of gas you will not have the cspacity to make a differance, before you are squeezed out.

This was tried by community groups buying large amounts of gas on the wholesale market, with the idea to sell it on to the domestic market at a lower price than the norm. Of course the gas producers realised what was going on and none of them offered gas at a price close enough to the wholesale price for it to make any difference to the big six.

#40 JohnM

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:25 PM

any idea who produces our gas?






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