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double standards in the education system


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#21 Johnoco

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:11 AM

I wouldn't expect any details of my children's lives in or our of school discussed with other parents. It's not a difficult concept, much like I wouldn't expect your doctor to tell me about anything about you if I were to ask him/her.

Hardly the same thing. For a start I know the person in question and I didn't ask them to give me information as such, I told them what I knew.

I imagine if you were told there is no way you can get an operation for disease X due to budget, only to discover that your neighbour was going in for the same op next week then you might begin to ask questions.

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#22 Larry the Leit

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

Hardly the same thing. For a start I know the person in question and I didn't ask them to give me information as such, I told them what I knew.

I imagine if you were told there is no way you can get an operation for disease X due to budget, only to discover that your neighbour was going in for the same op next week then you might begin to ask questions.

 

So what if you knew them.  The straight answer from the school should be/have been "we're not going to discuss with you anything related to children who you are not responsible for".  



#23 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:47 PM

Some people seem to think that schools (which is of course not the same as teachers) fine parents for the fun of it, ignoring the obvious problem that they are only fining them because they are under a great deal of pressure from government to improve attendance.

#24 Leeds Wire

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:07 PM

Some parents think its ok to take a holiday in term time because its cheaper; but if ALL parents did that then the consequences are obvious - there would be nobody there to teach. Why should one or two families save a few bob by holidaying in term time? What about the rest who pay full whack and abide by the rules?

 

The solution is possibly to offer schools a chance to set their own holidays, which has already been proposed, but that creates its own logistical difficulties.

 

Its a difficult subject but try to see it from a head teacher's point of view. They are under immense pressure to produce "results" because politicians live for headline data (too stupid to see otherwise?), therefore the ethics and morals go out of the window in order to attain the statistical outcomes, which in turn masks the real issues.

 

Yes, there is a problem with some families who take their kids out of school for months at a time for various reasons (how can you justify a three month trip to a foreign county to catch up with the relatives? What about your kids' education?), but you have to see it from the teachers' point of view. They can't bloody win, to be honest.

 

And no, I'm not a teacher, but in reference to the original post, its not worthy of a dignified reply.



#25 WearyRhino

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

a friend of mine took his kids away in school time for 4 days which resulted in snoopers going through his bins and issuing him with a fine, all seems a bit pointless when teachers go on strike willy nilly depriving kids of a days school and inconveniencing parents, do the teachers get fined in this case? think not.


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#26 Wolford6

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:57 AM

This is Michael Gove's version of Double Standards.

 

http://www.thetelegr...ford_MP/?ref=mr


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#27 Ackroman

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:59 AM

1. Some parents think its ok to take a holiday in term time because its cheaper; but if ALL parents did that then the consequences are obvious - there would be nobody there to teach.

 

2. Why should one or two families save a few bob by holidaying in term time? What about the rest who pay full whack and abide by the rules?

 

3. The solution is possibly to offer schools a chance to set their own holidays, which has already been proposed, but that creates its own logistical difficulties.

 

4. Its a difficult subject but try to see it from a head teacher's point of view. They are under immense pressure to produce "results" because politicians live for headline data (too stupid to see otherwise?), therefore the ethics and morals go out of the window in order to attain the statistical outcomes, which in turn masks the real issues.

 

5. Yes, there is a problem with some families who take their kids out of school for months at a time for various reasons (how can you justify a three month trip to a foreign county to catch up with the relatives? What about your kids' education?), but you have to see it from the teachers' point of view. They can't bloody win, to be honest.

 

And no, I'm not a teacher, but in reference to the original post, its not worthy of a dignified reply.

 

1. Families are exploited and frankly there would be no consequences as that's been the pattern for quite some time. A lot of holidays are educational for kids, foreign languages, historical sites etc. 

 

2. Why not? The rest are idiots to bring up their kids wholly at the behest of the State.

 

3. They can.

 

4. Goes with the job just like KPI's in almost all other corporate environments. The most unreliable aspect in any company or entity is the people employed or utilised.

 

5. Because your family is the one part of your life that has a chance of remaining stable and supportive. It also broadens horizons to travel. Education is a marathon not a sprint and should encompass all aspects of learning. I firmly believe parents have an obligation to provide learning way beyond the school curriculum. I think parents should be allowed a proportion of the year to provide educational support for their kids if they want. For example the last 2 weeks of any term, particularly primary is just one big jolly anyway, so why not visit Normandy, or the Dales instead?



#28 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:57 PM

a friend of mine took his kids away in school time for 4 days which resulted in snoopers going through his bins and issuing him with a fine, all seems a bit pointless when teachers go on strike willy nilly depriving kids of a days school and inconveniencing parents, do the teachers get fined in this case? think not.

I think not also

This is because the two situations have nothing whatsoever in common

I'll explain if necessary

Shoppers going this through his bins? I doubt it somehow


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#29 WearyRhino

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:44 PM

4. ..... The most unreliable aspect in any company or entity is the people employed or utilised.


4. ..... The most profitable aspect in any company or entity is the people employed or utilised.

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#30 Pen-Y-Bont Crusader

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:06 PM

Most schools are over a barrel on this when parents book the holidays in term time.

It's easier and has less impact on the inspection judgement on the school if they grant 10 days authorised absence, covered by a holiday request from the parents, with appropriate paperwork to support the application than for the school to record it as unauthorised and cop a hammering from whichever inspectorate regime they are under.

Most schools allow 10 days on this basis per year.

Edited by Pen-Y-Bont Crusader, 19 November 2013 - 09:06 PM.


#31 JohnM

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:33 PM

Is this correct?

 

In a push to improve pupil attendance levels across the country, new government legislation from 1 September 2013 means that headteachers will no longer be able authorise any requests for children to be taken out of school to go on holiday during term time.

 

see http://www.leeds.gov...-term-time.aspx



#32 Larry the Leit

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:38 PM

Private schools have shorter terms don't they? Meaning at the cheaper ones the cost saving on the family holiday can fund a good whack of the fees.

#33 gingerjon

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:22 AM

Is this correct?

 

In a push to improve pupil attendance levels across the country, new government legislation from 1 September 2013 means that headteachers will no longer be able authorise any requests for children to be taken out of school to go on holiday during term time.

 

see http://www.leeds.gov...-term-time.aspx

 

I believe it is.

 

Note: only applies to state schools in council control.  Free schools will still be able to make it up as they go along.


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#34 gingerjon

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:24 AM

Private schools have shorter terms don't they? Meaning at the cheaper ones the cost saving on the family holiday can fund a good whack of the fees.

 

Depends on the school but, round here, the majority break a week earlier at Christmas (and return a bit later) and have an extra four weeks in the summer.

 

It's still close to peak rate for most holidays I imagine.  It's not like they're getting March off to go on holiday.


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#35 Larry the Leit

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:27 AM

Depends on the school but, round here, the majority break a week earlier at Christmas (and return a bit later) and have an extra four weeks in the summer.

 

It's still close to peak rate for most holidays I imagine.  It's not like they're getting March off to go on holiday.

 

You're kidding right?

 

The difference in prices between a fortnight covering the last week in June/first week in July compared to when the schools have broken is staggering.



#36 gingerjon

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:34 AM

You're kidding right?

 

The difference in prices between a fortnight covering the last week in June/first week in July compared to when the schools have broken is staggering.

 

For places your band tours to, perhaps.

 

For places the rest of us like to go to, less so.


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#37 Larry the Leit

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:09 AM

For places your band tours to, perhaps.

 

For places the rest of us like to go to, less so.

 

I don't take my band on holiday.  That would be silly.



#38 Ackroman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:42 AM

4. ..... The most profitable aspect in any company or entity is the people employed or utilised.

 

Couldn't agree more but state funded schools don't make profits on the back of pupils, they suffer due to their unreliability.


Edited by Ackroman, 20 November 2013 - 10:43 AM.


#39 Bigal02

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:07 AM

I saw a woman being interviewed on breakfast TV a while ago, about her taking holidays outside of school holidays.  The 'fine' she paid to the school was a fraction of what she saved by going off-peak.



#40 LEEDSLADGONE SOUTH

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:04 PM

So when did it all go so wrong! When I see kids in some parts of the world walk several hours in the hope of getting a few hours education, when their families sacrifice everything to give their kids a few hours a day in a classroom.

And then you come here. KIds ###### around in class, bunk off school, think it's cool to be stupid. Parents think their human rights are being infringed because not being able to take their kids out if school means they'll have to pay a bit more for a holiday.

 

And to cap it all off, the constant whining about jobs going to foreign workers! What a bunch of cretinous tw*ts!






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