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Grangemouth distillery


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#41 archibald

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

There's an answer to this.  Nationalisation.

 

Stage 1:  Nationalise it.  Pay Ineos the very lowest end of a fair market price, obviously taking into account a cold refinery, a closed petrochemical plant, a hostile union, their claims of massive ongoing losses and so on.  Do you think £1 would be too much?

Stage 2:  De-power the unions who'd quite happily kill the plant to get their way by creating a John Lewis style co-operative Partnership.  A few idiot moves by unions that cost the company lots of money and, by association, reduce the money going into employees' hands via profit shares will see them shown the door.

So, when you've nationalised it and made choosing not to work illegal, all in the name of national security. Which other vital services will you want to remove workers rights from? Nurses? Teachers? etc



#42 Griff9of13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:38 AM

So, when you've nationalised it and made choosing not to work illegal, all in the name of national security. Which other vital services will you want to remove workers rights from? Nurses? Teachers? etc

 

Where does he say there that he would make choosing not to work illegal?


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#43 archibald

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

Where does he say there that he would make choosing not to work illegal?

It's a "critical industry", therefore there can be nothing that could potentially harm the running of it, choosing not to work will do this.



#44 Phil

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

So, when you've nationalised it and made choosing not to work illegal, all in the name of national security. Which other vital services will you want to remove workers rights from? Nurses? Teachers? etc

 

 

Haha yeah, you really care about workers rights don't you?


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#45 Saint Billinge

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

Haha yeah, you really care about workers rights don't you?

 

Jobs secured for now but at a price. 



#46 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

In the seventies, we had unions doing basically the same that INEOS have just done i.e. Wining a dispute by holding a gun to the head of the other party. It wasn't right then and has been soundly criticised by most right minded people.

so I ask the question why is this case any different, it is still one side bullying the other into submission, but in this case the victor will be hailed as completing a great piece of business, whilst the general working conditions of the country continue to move further backwards.

#47 archibald

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:26 PM

Haha yeah, you really care about workers rights don't you?

As a "worker" I certainly do. I'm not the one advocating totalitarian state control over "critical industries".

 

The average "worker" has the power to change many things, and the poor oppressed masses will no doubt one day rise up and cast off the shackles of the capitalist system that buries them slowly. But it'll have to wait until they've paid off the conservatory. And the kids' ipads. Oh, DFS will be needing their chunk for the next couple of years, it was interest free after all. And Sky. Plus Curry's, because what's the point of watching rugby if it isn't being shown through a 42 inch HD tv. And they said they'd take the kids to Disney next year.



#48 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-24758166

 

Seems a strange way to improve relations/negotiate with the management?


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#49 Phil

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

As a "worker" I certainly do. I'm not the one advocating totalitarian state control over "critical industries".

 

 

 

 

Neither am I, I'm advocating workers control of industry


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#50 Phil

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:30 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-24758166

 

Seems a strange way to improve relations/negotiate with the management?

 

 

Oh dear, poor managers, all they wanted to do was shut the plant down and throw the workers on the dole :-(


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#51 JohnM

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:28 PM

Really?  Is this your evidence? http://labourlist.or...ection-inquiry/



#52 archibald

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

Neither am I, I'm advocating workers control of industry

Which workers? Do they need to have some experience of business in general, finances, the law, health and safety etc etc? Or should "Joe Smith" who left school at 16 with a GCSE in metalwork and has spent the last 5 years ripping the guts from poultry in the local chicken factory get the keys to the front door?



#53 archibald

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:54 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-24758166

 

Seems a strange way to improve relations/negotiate with the management?

A union intimidating innocent parties, who'd have thought it. With any luck these idiots will be identified and then be sacked from whichever place they work.



#54 archibald

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

Oh dear, poor managers, all they wanted to do was shut the plant down and throw the workers on the dole :-(

And yet amazingly the plant is still open.



#55 Phil

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:11 PM

Which workers? Do they need to have some experience of business in general, finances, the law, health and safety etc etc? Or should "Joe Smith" who left school at 16 with a GCSE in metalwork and has spent the last 5 years ripping the guts from poultry in the local chicken factory get the keys to the front door?

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#56 archibald

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:27 PM

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?

So what's the "management committee" for then?



#57 JohnM

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:40 PM

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?

 

Next question?

 

why isn't everyone doing it?



#58 Phil

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:53 PM

So what's the "management committee" for then?

 

The management committee overlooks the business plan we formulate and is directly answerable to the supreme power in the organisation which is the quaterly general meeting of the members. MC members can only serve on the MC for 2 years maximum.

 

It meets once a week on Tuesday mornings. during the rest of the week Mc members (there are 6 of them) are variously, drivers, warehouse workers etc etc

 

Next question?

 

why isn't everyone doing it?

 

 

don't know, but at a guess, suggesting to shareholders that they hand their businesses over to the workforce would go down like a lead balloon. Or meet a similiar response to the one above, If you're ever in Elland come along and I'll show you around.


Edited by Phil, 31 October 2013 - 09:53 PM.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#59 archibald

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:59 PM

So you have a management team who are directly answerable to the shareholders. A capitalist utopia if ever I've seen one.



#60 Phil

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

We're not shareholders except in the nominal sense of each of us holding a non-transferable share. We don't get a dividend on it and we can't sell it. When we retire or leave the share is given up.

 

No matter what job you do (and most of us perform at least 3 roles) we are paid the same hourly rate.

 

we have no bosses, nobody has the authority to order anyone else to do anything.

 

We are a co-operative in its true and original sense.

 

So yes a utopia but a socialist one, run for the workers by the workers.


Edited by Phil, 31 October 2013 - 10:39 PM.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin




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