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Rugby League World Issue 402

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Kevin Sinfield


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#21 boxhead

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

You would think if you are going to try different Halves this game would be the perfect opportunity.

The fact that England does not have settled Halves, the most important positions on the field speaks volumes.



#22 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

You would think if you are going to try different Halves this game would be the perfect opportunity.
The fact that England does not have settled Halves, the most important positions on the field speaks volumes.


They have got settled halves it's just some people on here don't like them.

Sinfield and chase have been the halves for 3 years, and they halvent performed half as bad as some people on here would have you believe.

#23 boxhead

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

They have got settled halves it's just some people on here don't like them.

Sinfield and chase have been the halves for 3 years, and they halvent performed half as bad as some people on here would have you believe.

Why is Widdop on the Bench then?

What spot is he covering?

Its like the Coach is having a 50/50 bet if Sinfield is not working out.


Edited by boxhead, 29 October 2013 - 12:25 PM.


#24 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

Why is Widdop on the Bench then?
What spot is he covering?
Its like the Coach is having a 50/50 bet if Sinfield is not working out.


Widdop when fit has been on the bench for the last 3 years too. it's nothing of the sort, that's just the way the coach has played the halfback roles, now fair enough people can disagree but to say it hasn't been settled IMO isn't correct.

#25 7723

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

Why is Widdop on the Bench then?

What spot is he covering?

Its like the Coach is having a 50/50 bet if Sinfield is not working out.

 

Because the coach has made Sinfield captain and has to play him somewhere.

 

IMO Widdop should be Stand Off but isn't due to Sinfield having to play.



#26 GaryO

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

Wally that is tantamount to Blasphemy,

 

Seriously though, it looks as though the consensus of opinion on here regarding KS worth in the team is 30% for and 70% against, whilst I consider that many posters on here may have never been near a ball in anger or had the pleasure of coaching (I am probably going to get lynched for that assumption) we have a perspective and judgement most likely brought about by many years of experience in watching, debating and acquiring a great deal of knowledge of TGG, that is presumably why we post on here.

 

I know the saying re: committee's and racehorses etc and the buck stops with Steve Mac, but surely the majority can't be wrong ....................................................... Can they?     

 

 

Not sure where you get 70 30 split but... That doesn't mean the majority agree with you at all, at best it means the majority on here agree with you.

5 separate England coaches disagree with you though.

If you think a few fans on a message board are right and 5 England coaches, several club coaches including 3 who've won GFs, many current SL and international players are in the minority and are wrong, then fill your boots.

Christopher I can understand how you missed what I actually wrote, it seems that if anyone should dare to imply that KS is anything other than a demi-god your fingers go into automatic overdrive, please in future engage your brain before putting your fingers into gear.

 

Now back to reality, as it has been stated by many on here KS (in their opinion) has been a good, great, fantastic club player and would no doubt have him in their domestic team, But as an international with the exception of about 3 games ( I think this is roughly 10% of his representative games) he does not live up to the accolades he receives.

 

I am still totally surprised why on earth when we have better performers to play in the 4 positions that KS is involved in - and some now are even suggesting a 5th as in the second row - never mind that it is KS we are discussing it would apply to anyone, we need our best/accustomed players in their position on the field, and as for leadership on the field isn't O' Loughlin and Roby captains of their respective clubs also.  


"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

#27 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

You posted 'the majority can't be wrong' in saying you aren't the majority

I do not think KS is a Demi god, i think he is a very good RL player and I happen to think he is the right man to captain England in this WC.

You disagree and of course that's fine but don't think that means your in a majority or indeed correct.

5 different England/GB coaches have also deemed KS to be good enough to play in the team again a few fans on an Internet forum disagree, good on em, doesn't make you or them right and the way childish insults get banded around when people disagree with them gets tedious.

I can think KS is a good player and the right captain for the team without thinking he's a Demi god, or the sun shine out if his arris or being 'his mum' as often gets posted, it's pretty boring TBH

#28 GaryO

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

You posted 'the majority can't be wrong' in saying you aren't the majority

I do not think KS is a Demi god, i think he is a very good RL player and I happen to think he is the right man to captain England in this WC.

You disagree and of course that's fine but don't think that means your in a majority or indeed correct.

5 different England/GB coaches have also deemed KS to be good enough to play in the team again a few fans on an Internet forum disagree, good on em, doesn't make you or them right and the way childish insults get banded around when people disagree with them gets tedious.

I can think KS is a good player and the right captain for the team without thinking he's a Demi god, or the sun shine out if his arris or being 'his mum' as often gets posted, it's pretty boring TBH

So do you agree that there are better exponents "In this Squad" of the players in positions

 

STAND OFF

SCRUM HALF

HOOKER

LOOSE FORWARD

 

If not please state who are not as good as Kev and for what reason he is better at that position.

 

I know you have already dismissed him as a second row, quite rightly. 


"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

#29 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:31 PM

I think he's the best stand off in the squad. Not a conventional stand off I will grant you but the best in the squad.

He edges Widdop for his organisational skills, Widdop is inexperienced in leading a team around the park having played all of his senior RL in a very organised side led by Cameron Smuth and Cooper cronk.

However I full expect Widdop to make the six jersey his own after this years World Cup when IMO Sinfield will retire.

Chase is a totally different type of player it's hard to compare but I think chase and Sinfield can work well in the halfs so it doesn't have to be a choice.

I don't think he's the best in any other of those positions.

#30 hindle xiii

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:32 PM

While there are undoubtably better halves that are England qualified (one is playing tonight), I think we disregard Sinfields leadership, organisational and kicking ability at our peril.  I rather him be in the team than not.  I quite liked him at 9 in the Exiles game.

I know he's a Ponte lad, but it's a bit early for Danny Addy. :unsure:


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#31 7723

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

I think he's the best stand off in the squad. Not a conventional stand off I will grant you but the best in the squad.

He edges Widdop for his organisational skills, Widdop is inexperienced in leading a team around the park having played all of his senior RL in a very organised side led by Cameron Smuth and Cooper cronk.

However I full expect Widdop to make the six jersey his own after this years World Cup when IMO Sinfield will retire.

Chase is a totally different type of player it's hard to compare but I think chase and Sinfield can work well in the halfs so it doesn't have to be a choice.

I don't think he's the best in any other of those positions.

 

 

For me Widdop is the best stand off in our squad due to his passing, running and kicking ability with also being able to organise the attack. That is my opinion.

 

I'm just interested to know why you think Sinfield is the better option? I know you mentioned his organisational skills, but you must have more reasons than that as that alone isn't a very good reason.



#32 Draculas tea bag

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

Quote Saint Toppy Can't knock Sinfield for effort but he just isn't an international half back. He doesn't have the pace or skill to open up defences & create something out of nothing.

The sad thing is Chase does have these qualities but for whatever reason never displays them. 

 

 

 

I feel Chase was asked to play a more disciplined role on Saturday and that's not what he's about.Either give him the opportunity to play his usual game or don't bother at all.There's no compromise with RC.

 


Edited by Draculas tea bag, 29 October 2013 - 02:57 PM.


#33 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:02 PM

KS will be there , Nothing anyone on here can do to alter it. so we might as well get behind him.  I can see Christopher's point, he may be the best option available from the choices on offer because of his leadership qualities. I think what gets many, Is that he is nowhere near the best player, But that is down to Mac , Thats just another thing the RFL have excelled themselves at, Who else would pick the man with arguably the worst club record. thats another story, So for now   Come on England.


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#34 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

For me Widdop is the best stand off in our squad due to his passing, running and kicking ability with also being able to organise the attack. That is my opinion.

I'm just interested to know why you think Sinfield is the better option? I know you mentioned his organisational skills, but you must have more reasons than that as that alone isn't a very good reason.


And for me Widdops passing and kicking ability isn't as good as Sinfields so no not just leadership skills.

At this point in time I think Sinfield is the better all round 6 above Widdop, this as I say will change as Widdop develops at StGeorge but he's not there yet.

#35 Keith T

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

Christopher says he is the best stand-off in the squad and therein lies another story as to the squad selected.   McNamara picked Sinfield as his captain 2 years ago and he has to fit him in, in positions where there are better options than him.

 

I don't agree that he is the better stand-off in the squad and rate Widdop better but that is just a matter of choice.  As Giantstrides says there is nothing us lesser mortals can do about it as we don't have any say in selecting who plays or where but McNamara in my opinion has got himself in to a corner and is stubbornly sticking with his selection.    

 

As for 5 international coaches all picking Sinfield, that may be so, but where has been the success under those 5 coaches?


I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#36 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

KS will be there , Nothing anyone on here can do to alter it. so we might as well get behind him. I can see Christopher's point, he may be the best option available from the choices on offer because of his leadership qualities. I think what gets many, Is that he is nowhere near the best player, But that is down to Mac , Thats just another thing the RFL have excelled themselves at, Who else would pick the man with arguably the worst club record. thats another story, So for now Come on England.


Good club coaches don't always make good rep coaches, I think we have to give SM to the end of the tournament before judging him because he has bult this squad up for 3 years just for this. were one game in and in that game put in a better performance than most on here predicted and the good thing is we have a lot of improvement in the team, we pushed the top side very close and with a shocking completion and error rate in the second half.

I realise a few on here will never give SM or KS any credit at all but I wouldn't write them off yet

#37 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

I can only remember one other player apart from Sinfield coming in for this kind of of thing and much of it is done out of spite.That player was Lewis Jones Leeds greatest ever player who's club points and goal scoring record KS broke
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#38 jacksy

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:39 PM

Nobody hates KS we just do not believe he is the right man for the job in hand and neither is SM. There is some sort of sickness among GB/Eng coaches, who just cannot or will not pick on form or players in their best positions. They are always trying to shoehorn people into positions and picking players who are favourites.


Edited by jacksy, 29 October 2013 - 04:43 PM.

Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.


#39 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:48 PM

Christopher says he is the best stand-off in the squad and therein lies another story as to the squad selected.   McNamara picked Sinfield as his captain 2 years ago and he has to fit him in, in positions where there are better options than him.

 

I don't agree that he is the better stand-off in the squad and rate Widdop better but that is just a matter of choice.  As Giantstrides says there is nothing us lesser mortals can do about it as we don't have any say in selecting who plays or where but McNamara in my opinion has got himself in to a corner and is stubbornly sticking with his selection.    

 

As for 5 international coaches all picking Sinfield, that may be so, but where has been the success under those 5 coaches?

 

 

You may disagree with this and think there are better options but he doesn't, He isn't 'stubbornly' doing anything, he is picking what he thinks is the best team to win the WC.

 

as for your last sentence, I'm unclear in what you mean? are you saying all those 5 coaches weren't good enough or that its Sinfield's fault we haven't had any success against the Aussies?

 

Well its neither, the reason we haven't had any sustained success against Australia is simply because they are a better side than us, they have a larger and better pool of players to pick from due to it being the number one sport in the majority of the country.

 

However we can win this WC as we are capable of beating the Australians as we have a very good squad of payers this time around.



#40 GaryO

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:07 PM

You may disagree with this and think there are better options but he doesn't, He isn't 'stubbornly' doing anything, he is picking what he thinks is the best team to win the WC.

 

as for your last sentence, I'm unclear in what you mean? are you saying all those 5 coaches weren't good enough or that its Sinfield's fault we haven't had any success against the Aussies?

 

Well its neither, the reason we haven't had any sustained success against Australia is simply because they are a better side than us, they have a larger and better pool of players to pick from due to it being the number one sport in the majority of the country.

 

However we can win this WC as we are capable of beating the Australians as we have a very good squad of payers this time around.

Capable but very improbable, due to incoherent selections and directions.


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