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Kevin Sinfield


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#41 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:06 PM

Capable but very improbable, due to incoherent selections and directions.


So why was the game against Australia the closest we have been to them since 2006? If the coach was clueless and selections incoherent why did we get so close?

#42 Rover and out

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

For what it's worth I watch a lot of nrl and widdop is certainly no passenger in the Melbourne team, he is one of their most important players and was a key player when they won the grand final. IMO he has a better running game, passing game and is just as good an organiser as ks, he also has an underated kicking game. He's also great at linking up with his wide men and getting quick ball out wide which i don't think we did well on Saturday. I've nothing against Kevin sinfield but I just I don't think he's the best halve we've got at this level and that's the most important position for us, get the halves right and I fell we could beat the Aussies.

Edited by Rover and out, 29 October 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#43 Viking Warrior

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:21 PM

While there are undoubtably better halves that are England qualified (one is playing tonight), I think we disregard Sinfields leadership, organisational and kicking ability at our peril.  I rather him be in the team than not.  I quite liked him at 9 in the Exiles game.


i much prefer james roby, shaun lunt, danny houghton, paul mc shane, michael mc illorum, etc etc all far better hookers than sinfield.......
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#44 Rover and out

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:29 PM

i much prefer james roby, shaun lunt, danny houghton, paul mc shane, michael mc illorum, etc etc all far better hookers than sinfield.......


I agree but I think it's obvious sinfield isn't getting dropped so I'd rather him as hooker where his best international performances have been, perhaps starting and bringing roby on when defences are tiring. At least that way sinfield won't slow the play down has much as when he's first receiver and we might be able to get the ball out wide quicker and play with halves with a better running game.

#45 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:30 PM

For what it's worth I watch a lot of nrl and widdop is certainly no passenger in the Melbourne team, he is one of their most important players and was a key player when they won the grand final. IMO he has a better running game, passing game and is just as good an organiser as ks, he also has an underated kicking game. He's also great at linking up with his wide men and getting quick ball out wide which i don't think we did well on Saturday. I've nothing against Kevin sinfield but I just I don't think he's the best halve we've got at this level and that's the most important position for us, get the halves right and I fell we could beat the Aussies.

 

 

cut the stupid errors out and get a batter completion rate and we would have beaten them on Saturday, the halves were not the issue.

 

FWIW I watch a lot of NRL too and i never said Widdop was a passenger, I said he is used to playing in a team with two other players who organise the team.

 

Don't worry Widdop is young and will make the 6 jersey his own in the next few years.



#46 petero

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:35 PM

Not sure where you get 70 30 split but... That doesn't mean the majority agree with you at all, at best it means the majority on here agree with you.

5 separate England coaches disagree with you though.

If you think a few fans on a message board are right and 5 England coaches, several club coaches including 3 who've won GFs, many current SL and international players are in the minority and are wrong, then fill your boots.

 

Five seperate coaches, as you say have all been almost as besotted as you are with KS Chris, but those coaches have all had different opinions in turn deciding where to play him.

 

In other words he is, or has been considered in a utility role rather than as a settled and automatic selection for one definitive position.

 

To conclude I will repet that again Chris: Kevin Sinfield has mainly been utilised and used as an utility player!

 

That in itself effectively display's his true worthiness to the team/s he has been a part of at an international level. 



#47 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

Five seperate coaches, as you say have all been almost as besotted as you are with KS Chris, but those coaches have all had different opinions in turn deciding where to play him.

 

In other words he is, or has been considered in a utility role rather than as a settled and automatic selection for one definitive position.

 

To conclude I will repet that again Chris: Kevin Sinfield has mainly been utilised and used as an utility player!

 

That in itself effectively display's his true worthiness to the team/s he has been a part of at an international level. 

 

No need for the petty first comment petero, I'm not 'besotted' with anyone.

 

I'm not sure why the rest of your post is relevant, Sinfield has played 13, 9 and half back in his 13 year International career for 5 different coaches who all deemed him to be 'international' class in all those positions, yet you think you know better than them all I presume?

 

Andy Farrell also played quite a few positions over his international career, as did Paul Sculthorpe and quite a few others are you classing those players as utility players?


Edited by christopher, 29 October 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#48 petero

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:12 PM

No need for the petty first comment petero, I'm not 'besotted' with anyone.

 

I'm not sure why the rest of your post is relevant, Sinfield has played 13, 9 and half back in his 13 year International career for 5 different coaches who all deemed him to be 'international' class in all those positions, yet you think you know better than them all I presume?

 

Andy Farrell also played quite a few positions over his international career, as did Paul Sculthorpe and quite a few others are you classing those players as utility players?

 

Well if you consider my comments relevant then I would conclude yours to be evasive and actually, the comment of you being besotted is not an opinion that only I have formed when yourself and KS come into contention.

 

Sinfield until MacB came along was never used in a settled position of that you cannot argue, Smith even had him in three different positions, in one game alone in 2008.

 

Now of the three international games in which kevin has played at his best, one was the first test V Oz at scrum half, the second of that series he was annulled reason being, the Aussies knew what he would produce and quite simply stopped him. 

 

Next he had a very good match at, Hooker, again first game in a series. Unfortunately both V oz  and yet again in the return game precisely the same as above occurred , they knew what to expect and again just stifled his worth.

 

The last time was two years ago, at Wembley, Scrum Half this time, first game of series ( notice the pattern?) and very good he was too.

I wont dwell what occured in the next meeting simply to state: exactly the same again!

In each and every other he has been up against OZ he has failed utterly and not even impressed at all.

 

That Chris is one of the prime reasons that those of us un-besotted and not wearing blue and yellow glasses continue to be amazed that Kevin has been persisted with over such a protracted period, when to all intent's and purposes, he has never yet proven his worth at test level over and above the mediocre.



#49 Rover and out

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:18 PM

cut the stupid errors out and get a batter completion rate and we would have beaten them on Saturday, the halves were not the issue.

FWIW I watch a lot of NRL too and i never said Widdop was a passenger, I said he is used to playing in a team with two other players who organise the team.

Don't worry Widdop is young and will make the 6 jersey his own in the next few years.


After the first 20 mins if the match we should have been a lot more than 10 nil up with the amount of possession we had, we had the Aussies rattled but we didn't create enough chances and that's down to the halves, when sinfield is first receiver it slows our play down to much, we didn't get the ball out to the centres and wingers enough to test them out wide. I agree we shot ourselves in the foot with silly mistakes but we can't blame it all down to that as we didn't create enough chances when we had them rattled.
And you keep saying about 5 coaches all picking sinfield but you've got to ask if we had the players in the past in the halves that we've got at our disposal now? Sinfield may have been picked in the past because he was the best option available but I don't think that's the case today.

#50 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:28 PM

Well if you consider my comments relevant then I would conclude yours to be evasive and actually, the comment of you being besotted is not an opinion that only I have formed when yourself and KS come into contention.

 

Sinfield until MacB came along was never used in a settled position of that you cannot argue, Smith even had him in three different positions, in one game alone in 2008.

 

Now of the three international games in which kevin has played at his best, one was the first test V Oz at scrum half, the second of that series he was annulled reason being, the Aussies knew what he would produce and quite simply stopped him. 

 

Next he had a very good match at, Hooker, again first game in a series. Unfortunately both V oz  and yet again in the return game precisely the same as above occurred , they knew what to expect and again just stifled his worth.

 

The last time was two years ago, at Wembley, Scrum Half this time, first game of series ( notice the pattern?) and very good he was too.

I wont dwell what occured in the next meeting simply to state: exactly the same again!

In each and every other he has been up against OZ he has failed utterly and not even impressed at all.

 

That Chris is one of the prime reasons that those of us un-besotted and not wearing blue and yellow glasses continue to be amazed that Kevin has been persisted with over such a protracted period, when to all intent's and purposes, he has never yet proven his worth at test level over and above the mediocre.

 

Those of us 'un-besotted', listen Petero its getting tedious.

 

At least you seem to admit that Sinfield has played well for GB and England and not stating outright he's never performed. Unfortunately over the years England/GB have very rarely performed against Australia and that mainly is down to the fact they are a far better side than us. Many other players have underperformed against Australia in a GB/England shirt.

 

Be amazed all you like Petero, the people in charge of the national side for the last 13 years all feel or felt different. My opinion is ultimately just that an opinion as is yours it makes not one jot of difference, I happen to think Sinfield is the right man for the job in this WC regardless of whats gone on n previous games in previous years, you don't. I'm not besotted I'm not Sinfields mum, I just have a differing opinion to you.



#51 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:32 PM

After the first 20 mins if the match we should have been a lot more than 10 nil up with the amount of possession we had, we had the Aussies rattled but we didn't create enough chances and that's down to the halves, when sinfield is first receiver it slows our play down to much, we didn't get the ball out to the centres and wingers enough to test them out wide. I agree we shot ourselves in the foot with silly mistakes but we can't blame it all down to that as we didn't create enough chances when we had them rattled.
And you keep saying about 5 coaches all picking sinfield but you've got to ask if we had the players in the past in the halves that we've got at our disposal now? Sinfield may have been picked in the past because he was the best option available but I don't think that's the case today.

 

 

So in the last 13 years we haven't has as good halves as today? really?

 

Anyway we were going well for 20 minutes and 10 nil was a good start the halves were not the problem, of course you don't want to blame it all on stupid penalties and silly mistakes as it wasn't Sinfield making them so it doesn't suite your argument. The fact is it was stupid penalties and silly mistakes that swung the whole momentum and got the Aussies back in the game, look at our completion rate and the penalties conceded, no team can win with those stats I'm afraid, the fact we were so close at the end shows we have a good side.



#52 Larry the Leit

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

So in the last 13 years we haven't has as good halves as today? really?

 

Anyway we were going well for 20 minutes and 10 nil was a good start the halves were not the problem, of course you don't want to blame it all on stupid penalties and silly mistakes as it wasn't Sinfield making them so it doesn't suite your argument. The fact is it was stupid penalties and silly mistakes that swung the whole momentum and got the Aussies back in the game, look at our completion rate and the penalties conceded, no team can win with those stats I'm afraid, the fact we were so close at the end shows we have a good side.

 

Sinfield was again a complete nonentity at international level.  He's just not a threat.  End of.



#53 christopher

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

Sinfield was again a complete nonentity at international level.  He's just not a threat.  End of.

 

End of. :-)

 

You'll be writing FACT next.

 

Neither will be correct



#54 OMEGA

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:04 AM

He's right though!

#55 Larry the Leit

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:55 AM

He's right though!

 

FACT



#56 Fax1978

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:12 AM

Sinfield did just about what was asked of him on sat. As others have mentioned this will be his international swan song and providing widdop does ok at st George (without the big 3) he will take the 6 Jersey for England.

Also there looks to be another potentially outstanding talent coming off the Wigan production line in Powell, Williams and Hampshire throw in sarginson, Mellor, Sutcliffe (Leeds), Gaskell and I'm sure others can mention more the future for the 6 & 7 jerseys could be bright and competitive.

I think there is more an issue with player position pathways and coaching in this country for the halves if a 6 is produced at a club from a young age as soon as he starts to physically develop and grow he is moved to be a ball playing back row or loose forward or possible a big ctr, not many clubs seem to put much stock in an out and out 6. Hopefully things seen to be moving in the right direction.

Edited by Fax1978, 30 October 2013 - 11:12 AM.


#57 foozler

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:16 PM

Don't really get all the anti Sinfield sentiment.

 

The guy is a winner and a proven leader and is in my view fully deserving of the England captaincy. JP rates him as a captain and I am sure that the overwhelming majority of the England squad do too and are happy to have him on the field whatever number he wears on his jersey. Doesn't mean he has to play every pool game, as there should be other leaders in the squad who can step up to captain the team on any given day.

 

Saturday was the best performance from an England team for a long time and they should have won. Granted he struggled with a couple of goalkicks but he certainly Sinfield wasn't the issue. Others were responsible for the stupid penalties and errors that really cost the game.

 

Ablett cost us two points with his brain explosion in front of the ref. Westwood blew a PTB meters from the Aussie line when the pressure was on them He also cost us penalties and turnover in the middle of the field. We all know Tomkins is not the best at getting up for a bomb. Charnley was never in touch but maybe he should have made more effort to get to the ball sooner. Undoubtedly we should have better defended the resulting scrum play and whoever it was that shot out of the defensive line and missed their man made a mistake.

 

So cut out the stupid penalties, protect the ball more, and work on better defending first tackle plays from the scrum.

 

England have what is needed to take the trophy home. As a Saints fan I have gotten fed up of seeing him lifting trophies at Old Trafford but I would be very happy to see Sinfield lift another one at Old Trafford this autumn.


Edited by foozler, 30 October 2013 - 12:17 PM.





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