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01/11/13: World Cup Match 8 - France v New Zealand


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Poll: Who will win? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. France by 13 points or more (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  2. France by 7 to 12 points (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. France by 1 to 6 points (5 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  4. Draw (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. New Zealand by 1 to 6 points (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  6. New Zealand by 7 to 12 points (7 votes [24.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  7. New Zealand by 13 points or more (15 votes [51.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.72%

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#361 willy

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

I don't get all this rhetoric against France at all

 

In 1995 RL was bust - flat on its backside - and was rescued by an influx of cash via Sky as a knock on from the super league wars in Aus. Without a French side no sky money = no professional SL

 

French RL was a decent semi pro to amateur sport then at best and has now an albeit small pool of professional players it didn't have before

 

We have all come a very long way in those 18 years people, the only competition that moved forward consistently was the NRL, with a huge TV deal and mega bucks owners all over the place. European RL has grown standards have improved talent is being grown media profiles are increasing but still no real cash to back it up like other sports attract

 

We have mega bucks owners now and for some unknown reason people take the p$%s but they will elevate the game by raising standards and to be quite frank pushing the RFL into being a fit for purpose governing body

 

We are moving forward and the inclusion of another French team is of paramount importance to a European sponsorship package which allows SL to access a European cash pool it simply cannot access now - there is a mountain of cash in sport in France that is untouched by RL there because other than the odd international there is no real meaningful competition to follow

 

And as Vossy said on the telecast last night, an Italian team in SL would be ideal - and apparently has been discussed - playing for a nation with a competition supporting it

 

Our future is as an international/pan European competition, because without this there is no future because no sponsor will give a flying hoot whether that lass in Fev buys a product once this year, they want a cost effective platform across a large area that sells to a demographic in our global village, and that's not the one down the road.

 

Start ups are never cash rich, and if we want the gutter brush super league carry on, I would like to see the European Super League take off

 

And for all those that take the mick out of the French and what's going on there three words

 

JAMAL FAKIRS TEARS

 

If that didn't get your heart pumping knowing he knew as well as we did what was about to happen to the French team on the field then all you detractors are indeed lizard men from the planet Zog and I claim my £5.

 

Where there is passion feed it, don't cr^p on it!!



#362 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:30 PM

"Born in New Zealand from a Samoan father and a Māori mother, he has been living in France since 1993. His family came to France to follow his dad who ended his career as a rugby league player at La Réole after playing for Richmond and Ponsonby in Auckland. His father Andrew Sr. was also previously selected to represent Samoa in the Pacific Cup."

 

Apologies, I have been misinformed. They qualify for France in the same way that James Tamou, Willie Mason, Petro Civoniceva, Kharmichael Hunt, Aquila Uate, Toni Caroll, Brad Thorn, Bobby Fulton et al did for Australia then.



#363 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:50 PM

 

And for all those that take the mick out of the French and what's going on there three words

 

JAMAL FAKIRS TEARS

 

If that didn't get your heart pumping knowing he knew as well as we did what was about to happen to the French team on the field then all you detractors are indeed lizard men from the planet Zog and I claim my £5.

 

Where there is passion feed it, don't cr^p on it!!

 

Absolutely agree. Why is this any difference from this game (below). The All Blacks RU played Japan (yes Japan) this morning and won 54-6 (two penalties). There was a healthy crowd of 25k and Japan had Craig Wing (yes, that Craig Wing), Hendrik Tui, Michael Broadhurst, Luke Thompson etc. in their squad. I'm sure it was a powerful performance from the world class All Blacks and not the death of Japanese RU.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...match/ru3663910

 

Geez, we beat ourselves up sometimes. I saw passion, I saw a big crowd (massive in French RL terms), I saw dogged defence and I saw the current World Champions cruise away in the second half. As Lobby said, you need to ask the fans and the people watching French RL how they feel about things as they walk around in Catalans replica shirts with Fakir and Bosc on the back. I'm sure they could tell you some stories of the state of the game a couple of decades ago - especially regarding respect and media coverage. Many are probably having the time of their lives watching French RL at the moment.



#364 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:51 PM

When Catalans joined SL, I imagine virtually everyone on here was talking up the inclusion as the key to driving up France's development as a viable player on the international scene.


I don't believe anyone thought that this alone would make France international competitors overnight. More competitive, but not competitors.

They are more competitive than they would have been if they were part time. They're fitter. They've developed better players. It's hard to take that away. They need more competition for places. More depth.

To keep repeating that people think that the was THE thing that would make France competitors is where you're going wrong. It's A thing.
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#365 Simmo

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

Absolutely agree. Why is this any difference from this game (below). The All Blacks RU played Japan (yes Japan) this morning and won 54-6 (two penalties). There was a healthy crowd of 25k and Japan had Craig Wing (yes, that Craig Wing), Hendrik Tui, Michael Broadhurst, Luke Thompson etc. in their squad. I'm sure it was a powerful performance from the world class All Blacks and not the death of Japanese RU.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...match/ru3663910

 

Geez, we beat ourselves up sometimes. I saw passion, I saw a big crowd (massive in French RL terms), I saw dogged defence and I saw the current World Champions cruise away in the second half. As Lobby said, you need to ask the fans and the people watching French RL how they feel about things as they walk around in Catalans replica shirts with Fakir and Bosc on the back. I'm sure they could tell you some stories of the state of the game a couple of decades ago - especially regarding respect and media coverage. Many are probably having the time of their lives watching French RL at the moment.

You can ask the fans as many times as you like, and you can point out that they all looked immensely happy last night, but that won't make the team competitive.

 

If the long-term goal is to make some French people smile, then it looks as though the job is complete. I honestly thought it was about more than that though.



#366 petero

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

Yet again the disparity of class that exists between the NRL and S/L I fear has once more been emphasised in this mismatch.

Catalans (France, practically) NZ (NZ warriors, almost) the Frech side finishes 5th in S/L the S/Hemi side 10th or 11th in the NRL!

What are we to make of a scoreline like the one in this match when those facts are displayed?

The fact is that R/L in the N/Hemi is a different game altogether than the one in the S/Hemi and the catching up we require has probably not advanced an inch since 1982. I don't know how it can be achieved as god know's we have tried too but as much as S/L improves the NRL alway's seems to improve even more, sad but I am afraid it is, as alway's, an indisputable fact.

#367 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:10 PM

You can ask the fans as many times as you like, and you can point out that they all looked immensely happy last night, but that won't make the team competitive.

 

If the long-term goal is to make some French people smile, then it looks as though the job is complete. I honestly thought it was about more than that though.

 

Yes it is. But honestly, the difference between now and 20 years ago is unrecognisable. Twenty years ago internationals were being played in front of 3-4k - I think the Aussies won 74-0 in the early 1990s in front of less than 5k. Every French player who looked promising was snapped up by French RU (remember Pascal Bomati, Fabien Devvechi, J Cassin, Pierre Chamorin, Gael Tallec  and even Jerome Guissett jumping ship). Now there is a profession pathway for players and between 20-25 are playing SL standard football. They are earning enough money to want to stay in the sport.

 

This has led to Remy Casty signing for the Roosters, Elima playing for Bradford and Fages for Salford. If Escare, Pellisier, Duport, Bosc etc. became available then I am sure SL clubs would try to sign them. The fact is if Catalans didn't exist then any top class French player playing in Elite 1 would be lost to the game completely.

 

Our job is to help to grown that 20-25 to 60-80 asap. When France have 3-4 quality half backs, hookers, full backs and centre to choose from then that is when they will be competitive.


Edited by Scubby, 02 November 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#368 Saintslass

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:12 PM

Strange really how one rather predictable result leads to everyone indulging in stupid arguments again about heritage and how the game in France is now on its backside thanks in totality to that one rather predictable result.

 

Hopefully the England Ireland game will be a good one so that we can all return to celebration mode.  It was so nice while it lasted.



#369 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:17 PM

Strange really how one rather predictable result leads to everyone indulging in stupid arguments again about heritage and how the game in France is now on its backside thanks in totality to that one rather predictable result.

 

Hopefully the England Ireland game will be a good one so that we can all return to celebration mode.  It was so nice while it lasted.

 

Exactly SL :) If every member on here would have had to put there house on a scoreline last night - how many would have been that far away? It was pretty much what I and everyone expected. What we probably didn't expect 12 months ago was that NZ v Fra and Eng v Ire would be played before sold out attendances. I am gutted I can't fly over for the game today and would have loved to have been in France last night for that game.

 

People keep turning up in their 1000s. Somebody must be excited!


Edited by Scubby, 02 November 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#370 Simmo

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

Strange really how one rather predictable result leads to everyone indulging in stupid arguments again about heritage and how the game in France is now on its backside thanks in totality to that one rather predictable result.

 

Hopefully the England Ireland game will be a good one so that we can all return to celebration mode.  It was so nice while it lasted.

What is even stranger is that some posters can say things like this "I think they should be embarrassed by themselves to be honest. ", and then go on to slag off other posters for bagging the French team.



#371 Simmo

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:22 PM

Yes it is. But honestly, the difference between now and 20 years ago is unrecognisable. Twenty years ago internationals were being played in front of 3-4k - I think the Aussies won 74-0 in the early 1990s in front of less than 5k. Every French player who looked promising was snapped up by French RU (remember Pascal Bomati, Fabien Devvechi, J Cassin, Pierre Chamorin, Gael Tallec  and even Jerome Guissett jumping ship). Now there is a profession pathway for players and between 20-25 are playing SL standard football. They are earning enough money to want to stay in the sport.

 

This has led to Remy Casty signing for the Roosters, Elima playing for Bradford and Fages for Salford. If Escare, Pellisier, Duport, Bosc etc. became available then I am sure SL clubs would try to sign them. The fact is if Catalans didn't exist then any top class French player playing in Elite 1 would be lost to the game completely.

 

Our job is to help to grown that 20-25 to 60-80 asap. When France have 3-4 quality half backs, hookers, full backs and centre to choose from then that is when they will be competitive.

Is the size of the crowd the be all and end all of French development?

 

Who cares how many people are there if they are getting flogged. One thing you can be sure of is that, if the floggings continue, then the crowds will be back down again.



#372 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:23 PM

Is the size of the crowd the be all and end all of French development?

 

Who cares how many people are there if they are getting flogged. One thing you can be sure of is that, if the floggings continue, then the crowds will be back down again.

 

No they won't. More interest, more high profile games which is happening with Catalans and bigger crowds. Bigger crowds means more people might take up the game. Geez, France were below par and stuck in. It was 18-0 at half-time and blew out in the last 20. Why be so sour? England got flogged 49-6 by NZ in 2000 and beat Australia 12 months later - it was just one game.

 

If they win next week that will be 2/3 and a place in the quarter finals. France is in a massively better state than they were a couple of decades ago.



#373 fcl

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:30 PM

Kane and Andrew are in France since they were 6 years old. they were trained to Reole, Tonneins and Villeneuve. can not be more French than them!
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#374 Simmo

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:31 PM

No they won't. More interest, more high profile games which is happening with Catalans and bigger crowds. Bigger crowds means more people might take up the game. Geez, France were below par and stuck in. It was 18-0 at half-time and blew out in the last 20. Why be so sour? England got flogged 49-6 by NZ in 2000 and beat Australia 12 months later - it was just one game.

 

If they win next week that will be 2/3 and a place in the quarter finals. France is in a massively better state than they were a couple of decades ago.

They are no further on now than before Catalans.



#375 Scubby

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:40 PM

They are no further on now than before Catalans.

 

This is a joke right? Without Catalans France would have no professional full-time players. Any player with promise would be playing RU. No club games would ever be on TV (as it was before). Stade Gilbert Brutus would be a 5k one-stand lower league ground. 6000k season ticket holders (French) would not exist. France would be fighting it out with the likes of Serbia and may not even be qualifying for World Cups in the future.



#376 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:07 PM

I was disappointed that France didn't put up more of a fight, but it can't be easy going into a game against a team like New Zealand knowing that you're going to get hammered no matter what. On reflection, I think they did very well to restrict New Zealand to below 50 points, and, although it would have been good to have seen cross the line, the big three international sides are just so good at keeping out lesser opponents.

 

The problem a lot of us have is our unrealistic expectations of what the 'genuine' second tier nations can achieve (by 'genuine' I mean those nations like France, Wales, PNG, and to an extent Fiji, who are trying to base their national sides on their domestic games). Unfortunately, there is a limit to what they can achieve with their current structures, and that limit is way short of what is needed to seriously challenge Australia, New Zealand and even England. Okay, France has one Super League club which allows a few French players to be full time professionals, but the reality of survival in that competition means that it can't be a French only club.

The benefit of having ONE professional club does not make up for the other handicaps the French have: the lack of appropriate player and coach development programmes, the relatively poor standard of its domestic competition, the lack of international fixtures against teams of a similar standard, uneven competition with union for its players and the standard of national coach the French federation seem to be able to attract.

And the biggest handicap of all: that no matter how much they (and Wales, PNG and Fiji) can improve, the big three, with all their resources, can improve more.

Until the game can come up with realistic solutions we're just going to have to put up with scores like NZ 48 - 0 France, England 42 - 0 Ireland and Australia 52 - 0 Fiji (2008).


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#377 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:50 AM

Without a doubt the most depressing result of the World Cup. Not that I expected France to win but I did expect respectability in the scoreline. A serious blow to French Rugby leagues credibility where it counts in France and in the Southern Hemisphere :(


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#378 westlondonfan

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:05 AM

Without a doubt the most depressing result of the World Cup. Not that I expected France to win but I did expect respectability in the scoreline. A serious blow to French Rugby leagues credibility where it counts in France and in the Southern Hemisphere :(

I don't agree with you on this one. New Zealand had come off the back of a game where they had let in a lot of tries(for them).They wanted a clean sheet. It was only 0-12 until nearly half-time. Only 0-18 we'll into second half. France were better against the Kiwis than Ireland were against England. France have seen the fixture list. Their next match is the big one. They were as you say never going to beat NZ. There was nothing depressing about the crowd at all. (I also thought the TV commentary on Premier sports was excellent) What would be depressing is if France get hammered in their last game at Catalans ground against Samoa.
Another way of looking at it is that this is just another match that highlights the gulf between the NRL and the super league. To me New Zealand look the strongest team in the tournament. New Zealand have just as much chance of winning this tournament as do Australia.

#379 Number 16

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:44 PM

I had the great privilege to be at this game. The scoreline was a bit disappointing, but it didn't distract from the occasion. The crowd was knowledgeable and enthusiastic, and they were aware of the gulf between the two teams. The attendance was a stadium record. Plenty of shirts from around the French game, plenty of newbies and good press coverage locally. From those locals I spoke to I don't believe the scale of the loss is a discouragement. 


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