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IS RUGBY LEAGUE TOO HONEST


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#41 dhw

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:25 PM

Why ?  They were there.  They paid a price that covered two games.  If I buy a season ticket for - say - Fev next year, should I only be counted for one game ? After all, I only have one ticket ................

If you do not attend any games should you be counted?



#42 Griff

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

If you do not attend any games should you be counted?

 

If you're counting attendance, no, imho.

 

On the other hand, if it was a shared gate, the away side should have half the money.


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#43 Griff

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

Each match being a seperate event on a seperate day. This instance was a single event there is one attendance for both matches.

 

So you're saying that the difference is whether I go home between games ?

 

It's not about the numbers, it's about interpretation of the numbers.


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#44 John Rhino

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:49 PM

Cobblers mate. You can't count 90k for that. They 45,000 people bought one ticket for two matches.


There were 45, 000 there for the first game

At the end some people went, some people came and some stayed where they were.

There were 45,000 there for the second game.

90,000 there in total for two games.

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#45 Garvers

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:01 PM

And?

 

Were there 90,000 people in the Millenium on saturday or not?

 

Nobody is claiming there were 90,000 in the Millenium Stadium - it's a cumulative figure.  Total attendance for the world cup will be cumulative, there's no other way of doing it - meaning the same people will often be counted more than once, if they attend more than one game.  Whether they bought a ticket for an individual game, or a 'bundle' ticket that granted them access to two seperate games (Cardiff, Wembley), they should still be counted in the cumulative attendance figures.        



#46 dhw

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:33 PM

There were 45, 000 there for the first game

At the end some people went, some people came and some stayed where they were.

There were 45,000 there for the second game.

90,000 there in total for two games.

You are stating an opinion as fact. Clearly there were less people there for the second game. The 90k figure is a way of falsely manipulating figures.



#47 Garvers

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

You are stating an opinion as fact. Clearly there were less people there for the second game. The 90k figure is a way of falsely manipulating figures.

 

That's certainly true - some people didn't use the ticket they'd bought to watch the Wales-Italy match.  So 90,000 does sound a bit of a stretch in terms of total attendance for Cardiff (although more people than I expected watched both games). 

 

But what's the alternative?  It just so happens that two games took place last Saturday, but in the same stadium.  That shouldn't somehow invalidate people's attendance for each game.  What if exactly the same people go to each of the games at Leeds - should they not be counted simply because they have two seperate ticket stubs? 

 

It's not a perfect system, but the final cumulative figure will be pretty close to the number of people who attended individual games at the end of the world cup.  The same people will no doubt be counted multiple times, but there's just no way round that.



#48 Griff

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:09 PM

Bottom line is - we don't know how many were there for each match.

 

What about the folk who were waiting for eight minutes at the bar ?  Should they only count as 90% present ?

 

It's a never-ending treadmill.


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#49 ELBOWSEYE

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:43 PM

PADGE, SORRY FOR NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION EARLIER OTHERWISE ENGAGED.
THE FIRST I HEARD ABOUT FIGURES WAS A COUPLE OF SEASONS BACK IN AN GENERAL CONVERSATION AT WARRINGTON,IT WAS MENTIONED THAT OVER THE SUMMER HOLS THAT UPTO 400 SEASON TICKETS HOLDERS WOULD NOT ATTEND A MATCH THROUGH (HOLIDAYS/SHIFTPATTERNS AND OTHER REAONS) THE PEOPLE WOULD IF POSSIBLE BE ABLE TO SELL THEIR SEATS TO REGAIN MONEY,BUT THE MATCH WOULD HAVE TO BE A DERBY TO FACILITATE THE MARKET, SO IF WHAT YOU STATE IS A FACT AND NOT MY VERSION THAT COULD POST A FIGURE ABOVE THE CAPACITY.

#50 Padge

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:59 PM

PADGE, SORRY FOR NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION EARLIER OTHERWISE ENGAGED.
THE FIRST I HEARD ABOUT FIGURES WAS A COUPLE OF SEASONS BACK IN AN GENERAL CONVERSATION AT WARRINGTON,IT WAS MENTIONED THAT OVER THE SUMMER HOLS THAT UPTO 400 SEASON TICKETS HOLDERS WOULD NOT ATTEND A MATCH THROUGH (HOLIDAYS/SHIFTPATTERNS AND OTHER REAONS) THE PEOPLE WOULD IF POSSIBLE BE ABLE TO SELL THEIR SEATS TO REGAIN MONEY,BUT THE MATCH WOULD HAVE TO BE A DERBY TO FACILITATE THE MARKET, SO IF WHAT YOU STATE IS A FACT AND NOT MY VERSION THAT COULD POST A FIGURE ABOVE THE CAPACITY.

 

 Why are you shouting.

 

You stated that it happens a lot at SL clubs, I just would like to see some real numbers, i.e. a clubs season ticket sales and then a list of the clubs games where they posted a figure bellow that figure.

 

So two years ago at some time in the middle of summer at Warrington they posted loads of games below season ticket sales. Shouldn't be to hard for you to find the figures. Look forward to seeing them to analyze.


Edited by Padge, 30 October 2013 - 08:00 PM.


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#51 Dave T

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:51 PM

 Why are you shouting.

 

You stated that it happens a lot at SL clubs, I just would like to see some real numbers, i.e. a clubs season ticket sales and then a list of the clubs games where they posted a figure bellow that figure.

 

So two years ago at some time in the middle of summer at Warrington they posted loads of games below season ticket sales. Shouldn't be to hard for you to find the figures. Look forward to seeing them to analyze.

What Warrington have done is when there has been a sellout, they have announced the capacity of the stadium, even when you can see that there have been a few seats left unoccupied.



#52 marklaspalmas

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:23 PM

It's exactly the same 45,000 people who bought one ticket for one double-event where you could not buy single or separate tickets. Calling that 90,000 fans is dishonest.

 

All that stuff about season tickets is irrelevent.


 

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#53 ELBOWSEYE

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:33 PM

Sorry if that is shouting just pressed the wrong button (a bit touchy ?)

#54 Dave T

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

It's exactly the same 45,000 people who bought one ticket for one double-event where you could not buy single or separate tickets. Calling that 90,000 fans is dishonest.

 

All that stuff about season tickets is irrelevent.

Yep, I agree. Not sure why people are so bothered tbh, personally I am interested in ticket sales, not artificially double counting.



#55 Padge

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:14 PM

What Warrington have done is when there has been a sellout, they have announced the capacity of the stadium, even when you can see that there have been a few seats left unoccupied.

 

So that is the opposite of what is being claimed.



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#56 Dave T

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:17 PM

So that is the opposite of what is being claimed.

yes

#57 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:12 AM

There's no standard practice for announcing attendance. Some announce people through the style. Some announce tickets sold.

Me? I'd say you need to actuall ATTEND to be in ATTENDance. It's kind of implied in the name!

Shared gates are different in that you're not sharing the attendance, you're sharing the ticket sales (I assume).

As for the WC. People are confusing event attendances with game attendances. We don't know what the game attendance is at either of the double header games, we only know the overall event attendance. To say 45,052 attended both games is not really true. I know other sports do it, but I don't think that means we ultimately should. It's just more fuel to the criticism fire.

There are 26 events at this WC over 28 games. The overall attendance of the WC event would be those 26 events IMO, so you wouldn't count both games in either the OC or the SFs.
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#58 nec

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

No one is criticising us for anything currently, we do however have a unique opportunity post. WC to put together a PR stats package that might secure us some sponsors and improved TV deals. When we do that I suggest we do exactly as our competitors would and count the spectators in whichever way makes us look the most attractive proposition. We cannot afford to be pious and lose the benefits we may otherwise accrue. If anyone doesn't like it, please stay quiet until we have gained the funding the sport needs to build on this fabulous world cup. This is the real world, we need to make sure we look good as much as we need to be good, PR matters more than statistical semantics.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

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#59 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:14 AM

No one is criticising us for anything currently, we do however have a unique opportunity post. WC to put together a PR stats package that might secure us some sponsors and improved TV deals. When we do that I suggest we do exactly as our competitors would and count the spectators in whichever way makes us look the most attractive proposition. We cannot afford to be pious and lose the benefits we may otherwise accrue. If anyone doesn't like it, please stay quiet until we have gained the funding the sport needs to build on this fabulous world cup. This is the real world, we need to make sure we look good as much as we need to be good, PR matters more than statistical semantics.

Are potential sponsors that stupid to not realise a gate has been counted twice in a doubleheader in the aggregate for the tournament?
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#60 Padge

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

Are potential sponsors that stupid to not realise a gate has been counted twice in a doubleheader in the aggregate for the tournament?

They probably expect it since that's what others do. So if we don't they could see us as having a poorer attendance record than they expect.



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