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TONY BENN


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#41 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:46 AM

Thatcher certainly thought it was a war speaking of "the enemy within" and using MI5 to combat the strike. And as I say the dubious tactics used at for example Orgreave certainly convinced the miners that they were in a war. As you say wars have rules, but soldiers break those rules, look at the court martial going on at Bulford now. As for the cops, you may have stopped believing them, but most of the right leaning media (especially the Sun) treated their word as gospel, especially where the Miners' Strike and Hillsborough are concerned,right up to the recent Downing Street shenanigans. They and the Tories seem to have now changed their tune somewhat.


None of this excuses murder.

Thatcher may have considered war to be an appropriate metaphor, as did people on the other side but it was just a metaphor. There was no excuse for violence on the part of the strikers nor much of the time by the police either.

#42 Exiled Townie

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:20 PM

I think Benns problem was that his upbringing (which he couldn't help) and continued lifestyle (which he could) made a lot of none political people think of him as a champagne socialist.  I remember on the news once down here, he had been speaking at a rally in Trafalgar Square that was calling for large houses, business premises etc to be used for homeless people.  He got a bit shirty with the reporter who had questioned the idea, who then asked him "Now the rally's finished Mr Benn, are you going back home to your four story mansion in Holland Park?"  If looks could kill.

(Just in case you don't know, Holland Park is one of the most expensive areas of London).


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#43 ShotgunGold

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

I am too young to assess his career and as I am aware that he is on the far left of Labour I am doubtful that I'll agree with him on everything. Nevertheless I did hear him speak once in London in 2009.

He came across as caring, intelligent, constructive, and most of all passionate. He also seemed to have two things: a backbone, and morals and views that are above money or the worship of money.

For that reason I respect him. Also the Labour Party have another old MP who is very socialist called Dennis Skinner, he too seems to be more passionate than their entire front bench.

#44 Trojan

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

None of this excuses murder.

Thatcher may have considered war to be an appropriate metaphor, as did people on the other side but it was just a metaphor. There was no excuse for violence on the part of the strikers nor much of the time by the police either.

~Where did I excuse it? Don't forget that miners were killed whilst picketing too.

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#45 Northern Sol

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:52 PM

~Where did I excuse it? Don't forget that miners were killed whilst picketing too.


How would you feel about a proposed amnesty for their killers?

#46 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:16 AM

How would you feel about a proposed amnesty for their killers?

the men who dropped the concrete block were murderers pure and simple, their actions had no connection with the NUM or its members.

there needs to be a proper inquiry into the conduct of the police during the strike: but it will be difficult because of the number of police forces involved.

I believe that the involvement of the army is a myth.


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#47 Larry the Leit

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:19 AM

I believe that the involvement of the army is a myth.


I've never been convinced about this either.
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#48 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:32 AM

I've never been convinced about this either.


I know it to be fact.

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#49 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:41 AM

I know it to be fact.

I have a vested interest in you saying more about this.

I have eheard many miners make the allegation, but never come across any evidence in my research


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#50 Larry the Leit

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:53 AM

I too would like our comrade from York to give more detail. I read an emotional account of the situation recently that alleged army involvement but even that was misted by both time and ambiguity.
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#51 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 09:38 AM

Can't say on a public forum, although I think I may have in the past!

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#52 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:04 AM

Can't say on a public forum, although I think I may have in the past!

can you pm me about it?

I really do have a vested interest


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#53 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

can you pm me about it?
I really do have a vested interest


It won't let me Chris I get a "Array" error message. I've asked Larry to forward to you!

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#54 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:32 PM

It won't let me Chris I get a "Array" error message. I've asked Larry to forward to you!

thanks mate


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#55 archibald

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

Why were the army, like the police, required to be there?



#56 Jasper

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

 

I believe that the involvement of the army is a myth.

 

 

I know it to be fact.

 

 

I have a vested interest in you saying more about this.

I have eheard many miners make the allegation, but never come across any evidence in my research

 

If I remember correctly, in his published diaries, didn't Tony Benn state that while on the train to Chesterfied a man introducing himself as an ex soldier and told him that the Royal Green Jackets and the SAS were involved in the strike.  Also someone told him that one of the 'policemen' he had seen during the miners strike was his best friends son who was supposed to be serving in the BAOR at the time.



#57 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:08 PM

Why were the army, like the police, required to be there?

Maybe they weren't 

If they were then it was to provide extra muscle for a massive nation wide seven days a week paramilitary operation by the police

 

I have heard many accounts of soldiers not in uniform being used including from my friends and family but I've never unearthed any evidence

The police have to be identifiable by their numbers but when it suits they remove them: I'm sure you can figure out why. There was a recent example of this when someone was killed at a demo


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#58 WearyRhino

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

Chris. Delete stuff from your inbox so I can send you some 'evidence'.

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#59 archibald

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:37 PM

Maybe they weren't 

If they were then it was to provide extra muscle for a massive nation wide seven days a week paramilitary operation by the police

 

I have heard many accounts of soldiers not in uniform being used including from my friends and family but I've never unearthed any evidence

The police have to be identifiable by their numbers but when it suits they remove them: I'm sure you can figure out why. There was a recent example of this when someone was killed at a demo

What "paramilitary operation"? Why was it necessary for the police to be there in the first place? What were the events that made someone say, "we need to ship in extra officers at colossal expense to the taxpayer"?

 

Any officer who removes his/her number should be instantly sacked.


Edited by archibald, 10 November 2013 - 03:39 PM.


#60 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:49 PM

What "paramilitary operation"? Why was it necessary for the police to be there in the first place? What were the events that made someone say, "we need to ship in extra officers at colossal expense to the taxpayer"?

 

Any officer who removes his/her number should be instantly sacked.

Police operations during the 1984-5 miners' strike

 

I'm given to understand the recent example if this became a subject of criminal charges

 

No officers were prosecuted in or after the strike

During the general strike service personnel, mainly royal navy were employed in the mines as strike breakers: it's a possibility that an assumption might have been made in this case even though their putative roles were differen


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 10 November 2013 - 03:55 PM.

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