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World cup legacy?


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#1 CanningtownRL

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:58 PM

What will be the legacy of this world cup? We have been lucky enough to have seen some terrific games in packed stadiums I just believe the club game outside the heartlands is not strong enough to capture the new audience whom will appear post world cup. My situation is my brother and two young nephews all massive football fans from London have been captivated by this tournament. My brother commenting on the great atmosphere and sheer brute force, while my youngest nephew (11) even asked for an American Tomahawks shirt and was buzzing after they beat Wales. The world cup semi final has gone from just me and my union loving mate (who also now wants to go to the final and maybe a quarter final) the group has enlarged to include my brother, his two work friends, my nephews and 4 of their school friends with probably more on the way.

My nephews both want me to take them to club games next year and this is where my problem arises. The London Broncos are now probably defunct and my nearest super league club is either a 2hr flight to France or a three hr train journey to Warrington. Do you think the RFL should have made a concerted effort to try and keep London Broncos in super league at least for 2014 to gauge the reaction after a successful world cup? I also know they have been going for years with a low base of support, but I really feel this is the first time London has seen mainstream support for rugby league. In my part of London the football only pub at the top of my road has shown all the England RL games, even demoting the union game to a small screen at the back of the bar and muting Jeff Sterling on soccer Saturday. The O’Neil’s has shown every game on premier sports and the Semi final has been mentioned in my local rag. Who Knows I little bit of advertising at the semi final and maybe and pitch side advert and London Broncos may have got lots of new and eager fans. Instead I plan to take my nephews to Warrington. Sorry if this post was a little long



#2 SE4Wire

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:25 PM

Only 1hr 44 from Euston to Warrington, 1st stop too. I get it to see family fairly frequently. Book in advance and train tickets can be cheap.

To be fair Twickenham isn't the easiest place to get to. Used to take me about an hour from mine in SE London. That's why I didn't often go. I also like Union and never went to Quins for same reason (despite having free tickets available). There's still Skolars in North London.

On how much people are noticing, people aren't exactly following but are aware of England games on BBC. I imagine they'll be fairly engaged for semis. I think if we got to the final it would really make ears ##### up and if we were to win the whole thing it would have a huge impact on following.

Everyone I know who decides to "give it a chance" comments on the fact they think it's brutal (in a good way) and intense. Internationals seems to capture the British public's imagination a lot more than in games.

#3 nec

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:25 PM

I think the idea of one last season for the Broncos has SOME merit, however this is likely to be with a skeleton squad and may put off more spectators than it attracts or retains.


Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#4 Crunchers Dad

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:26 PM

If he Broncos do survive and are ready for next season, then they could capitalize in one action, to attract new fans. If they offered anybody who has a World Cup ticket, 50% off admission to any home game next season.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.

#5 Viking Warrior

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:58 AM

i really hope broncos survive,they have been a shining light for expansion over the past 15 years, ok they have struggled to attract the big crowds but the legacy of the academy and amateur structure in the capitol is there for all to see. it will be a sad sad day for rugby league if broncos do go to the wall..............
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#6 Cumbrian Fanatic

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

Keep your eye's open and you'll get a good deal for the Challenge Cup Final at Wembley. Up to 22 Oct they were offering a 30% discount on tickets.

 

Other offers they seem to do each year for limited periods are:

 

£10 tickets (though these are at the back)

Free upgrade to the next price up

Get 5 for the price of 4


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#7 wirecab

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:37 AM

Look forward to seeing new fans at the HJ next season- look for family tickets for the East stand (seats) as good value. Not sure if you want to stand in the South stand after the train journey.

 

It will be sad if the Broncos aren't there because a fanbase away from the heartlands is the only way to make the game grow. Good to see the RLWC expanding the awareness. Now we all need to keep the momentum going and make the game as big as Union (bigger)

 

Canningtown RL- If you choose to follow the Wire then there's a good chance your travel plans will be a bit shorter in August- (we want our trophy back! :D )



#8 West Country Eagle

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:41 AM

If he Broncos do survive and are ready for next season, then they could capitalize in one action, to attract new fans. If they offered anybody who has a World Cup ticket, 50% off admission to any home game next season.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.


Tony Rea was in the Cook Islands coaches box again last night, so while he was waiting for David Fairleigh to turn up I tried to quiz him on the future of the Broncos. He said he was meeting David Hughes today and was trying to assemble a squad. He seemed quite positive, which surprised me. I guess he could have just been deflecting the questions but he didn't appear to be worried at all, much to my surprise.
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#9 flyingking

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:57 AM

One of the best things about this thread is the range of locations represented in the posters' usernames.
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#10 The Parksider

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:06 PM

Tony Rea was in the Cook Islands coaches box again last night, so while he was waiting for David Fairleigh to turn up I tried to quiz him on the future of the Broncos. He said he was meeting David Hughes today and was trying to assemble a squad. He seemed quite positive, which surprised me. I guess he could have just been deflecting the questions but he didn't appear to be worried at all, much to my surprise.


very interesting information from a very trustworthy source if I may say so.

If this happens it may sadly dissapoint some people.

#11 Cumbrian Fanatic

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:27 PM

very interesting information from a very trustworthy source if I may say so.

If this happens it may sadly dissapoint some people.

Not one of them, would love to see London thrive, I've had a soft spot for them ever since Rob Purdham went there


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#12 Jonty

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:35 PM

Legacy is interesting - amongst some it has almost become a dirty word, and there is a public perception that there hasn't been an Olympic legacy, which certainly isn't the case in reality.

 

You can look at legacy in a number of ways:

 

A. THE INTERNATIONAL GAME

 

The event

What the RLWC has shown is that international rugby league is big news and has re-established international rugby league as a serious spectator and broadcast sport. Very few international team sport events can average 10,000+ per fixture on a 28 game schedule. We're a long way from touching football and rugby union equivalents, but this has shown that rugby league can be a significant player that has the ability to compete with other international sporting events. It's not that far, at spectator level, from being on a similar scale to the Cricket World Cup that is being held in Australia and NZ in 2015. Of course, the Cricket World Cup is huge broadcast product due to the Indian sub-continent market.

 

The international programme is crucial. It could look like this:

 

2013: RLWC (England and Wales)

2014: Lions (away to Aus); Tour matches; RLWC2017 preliminary qualifiers

2015: Six Nations (NH); RLWC2017 qualifiers

2016: Tour matches

2017: RLWC (Australia and NZ)

2018: Lions (home to Aus); Tour matches; RLWC2021 preliminary qualifiers

2019: Six Nations (SH); RLWC2021 qualifiers

2020: Tour matches

2021: RLWC (NH)

2022: Lions (away to Aus); Tour matches; RLWC2025 preliminary qualifiers

2023: Six Nations (NH); RLWC2025 qualifiers

2024: Tour matches

2025: RLWC (SH)

 

etc.

 

Legacy 1. A robust international programme for all nations is established for at least the next two world cup cycles (to 2021)

 

Representative honours

There have been issues in the world cup about heritage players. Heritage players aren't the problem. It's the system that allows them to move from nation to nation depending upon their own playing prospects. For the 2017 cycle players aspiring to international honours should nominate their nation and stick with it. I've no issue with the USA or Italy etc. I have an issue with players changing.

 

Legacy 2. Guidelines in place as to enforcing international eligibility

 

These first two points need to feed off each other. If a player has to weigh up the options between playing for "Country A" or "Country Z", the decision needs to be influenced by the prospects of international competition. If a player can see that Italy has a programme in place for international honours for the next ten years - essentially the players' peak playing years - then said player will be more likely to commit.

 

Focus nations

So what would that look like? It needs to be a mix of club competition and international competition, but in many ways, contrived to assist those nations that have both the potential and put in the hard yards. Whilst Iestyn Harris made a point about Wales' lack of success due to other teams heritage players, he made it badly. There are six nations where rugby league has professional and semi-professional domestic competition.

 

Australia

England

France

New Zealand

Papua New Guinea

Wales

 

Whilst three of these nations would undoubtedly out of their depth at this stage, the four nations must expand to six, offering these six key nations the opportunity to grow and to compete. It recognises that these six countries are made up of homegrown players and rewards them. Other nations need to aspire towards that goal and must be encouraged to do so. You want to dine with the best? Then bring something to the table, don't just make up the numbers.

 

Legacy 3. Expansion of the "Tri/Four Nations" concept to six teams

 

Club "internationals"

There is undoubtedly a will for international club competition, but this shouldn't be a free-for-all, it should be earned. If you look at successful cross-border competition elsewhere - Champions Leagues in football and handball, Heineken Cup etc. places are minimal and they are a reward on performance. An expanded World Club Challenge has value to international rugby, but it must strike a balance between rewarding performance and offering international development. With that in mind I would propose a slightly contrived format that produces a genuine international mix. An 8-team event with places awarded to the 3 places reserved for the highest ranked teams from each of England and Australia and a ringfenced place for each of NZ and France. It is a contrived format, but it will have a knock on benefit for the domestic game in each nation, as well as hopefully having a higher value as an international product.

 

As an example, and based on 2013 places, a 2014 event could look like this:

 

Catalans
Huddersfield
Melbourne Storm
New Zealand Warriors
South Sydney
Sydney Roosters
Warrington
Wigan

 

The same could happen at a lower-level to help lay the foundation in other "Big 6" nations, as well as revitalising domestic competition. Again, it has to be contrived, but you could look at:

 

"European Club Challenge": 4 places to highest ranked English KPC sides; 3 places to highest ranked LER sides; 1 place to highest ranked Welsh side.

 

Could it work in the southern hemisphere with teams from non-NRL Qld and NSW competition facing NZ National Competition and SP Cup teams? The rationale is that it offers a step up in intensity for the French, Welsh, NZ and PNG player pool without relying upon SL or the NRL.

 

Legacy 4. A pathway to international club competition for highest ranked teams, allowing a step up in intensity that bridges the gap between domestic competition and the international game

 

 

 

And then you need to look at what legacy looks like outside the international game and in the host nations involved, in our case England, Wales, France and the Republic of Ireland, which I'll post later.


Edited by Jonty, 06 November 2013 - 12:50 PM.

disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#13 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:39 PM

more attractive to sponsors

more credible for public money grants

better image


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#14 GeordieSaint

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

Tony Rea was in the Cook Islands coaches box again last night, so while he was waiting for David Fairleigh to turn up I tried to quiz him on the future of the Broncos. He said he was meeting David Hughes today and was trying to assemble a squad. He seemed quite positive, which surprised me. I guess he could have just been deflecting the questions but he didn't appear to be worried at all, much to my surprise.

 

I've also been told that the offer from the Barnet FC Chairman is firmly on the table; his condition is no debts to be carried across! Over to Mr Hughes I guess now...

 

Jonty, cracking post! The only issue I have is the International club competition. When would this be run? It should NEVER take the place of country internationals...


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#15 Jonty

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

 

Jonty, cracking post! The only issue I have is the International club competition. When would this be run? It should NEVER take the place of country internationals...

 

Cheers! I agree. If SL is cut to 12 teams then you automatically gain 4 weeks, plus you lose the old WCC. The NRL is shorter than SL, so I'm sure it could be accomodated with willpower. Must never, ever be an alternative to international competition.


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#16 GeordieSaint

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

Cheers! I agree. If SL is cut to 12 teams then you automatically gain 4 weeks, plus you lose the old WCC. The NRL is shorter than SL, so I'm sure it could be accomodated with willpower. Must never, ever be an alternative to international competition.

 

I personally think any break mid-season should be utilised for short tours from the Pacific Island sides/NZ over here or the Home Nations going in the opposite direction. Leave end of season internationals for the big competitions. The trick would be getting the Australian authorities to play SOO on consecutive weekends allowing this to happen... The smaller nations are crying out for extra games!


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#17 Jonty

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:12 PM

B. DOMESTIC LEGACY - some thoughts on participation

With all the will in the world, the RFL cannot cover all bases and need to be mindful of their capacity, especially given the reduction in development officers for 2013-17.

Therefore the strategy has to be to make strong areas stronger. That doesn't mean that the sport only invests in the heartlands; it means that where there is a strategic value to rugby league development, that there is more likelihood of a legacy. Given this, focus on increasing participation in the areas where games - and teams - have been hosted; Bristol, Workington/Allerdale, Wrexham and south Wales etc. What does legacy look like in Workington, a town which IIRC, is without a single amateur club? Of course, there are plenty of clubs in the villages and small towns that surround Workington, but what is the legacy in Workington itself?

Legacy is not about getting bums on seats. It is about increasing the player pool in the host nation(s). We cannot do that everywhere, but it can be done in focus areas. where there is a pathway from initial engagement to elite performance.

Here's a question - "can you draw what rugby league looks like in your area?". You want something that is a diagram. In Wigan or Leigh, it's simple. You have the pro-clubs at the centre, surrounded by the community game, schools, colleges, council/leisure trust, county sports partnership etc. The partnership approach to this world cup means that this infrastructure exists in each host city.

Look at Watford or Reading in 2000. Could you draw what RL looked like in those towns?

Working in partnership increases the likelihood of external investemnt in the longer term - match-funding development officers to sustain the work and interest, supporting gifted and talent athletes etc. and allowing the game to grow and thrive in pockets. Without increasing the player pool, England cannot compete with Australia on a regular basis. Occasional games, yes. Regularly, possibly. Dominate? No.

It is no coincidence, IMO, that the period that Sydney surpassed Greater Manchester in size (1961-71) and that Brisbane surpassed West Yorkshire (1961-71) was also the period in which Britain last developed a team that won a tournament against the Kangaroos. It would have been in this period that the player pool of NSW and QLD significantly began to exceed that of England. England has a long way to go to catch-up.

 

The other side is what happens elsewhere. What does the kid in Tamworth, inspired by the world cup, do? The RFL needs a pathway for this person. It could be self-activated activity - street rugby, touch etc. It could be be via a community club with a will to grow or through Champion Schools. THere is not capacity to put people on the ground in many of these areas, but a workforce of leaders, coaches and advocates can be built. By 2017 Tamworth could be the next Bristol.


Edited by Jonty, 06 November 2013 - 02:14 PM.

disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#18 Bob8

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:33 PM

The short term effect will be positive and there will be a little more money.  It will give a small boost to the game, particularly in nations like Samoa and Cook Islands.

 

However, this would only be short term and the long term establishment of the international game is vital.  Hopefully, this will be a legacy.  It will demonstrate that the international game is profitable and good for the clubs.  We always get far better coverage and interest for international, but many people manage to convince themselves otherwise. 

 

For the English casual sports fan unfamiliar with rugby league, Scotland vs Wales is more interesting than Wigan vs Warrington.  This will help demonstrate this truth once again.


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#19 Jonty

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:54 PM

One thought in my mind is the pricing structure of the domestic game. This world cup is delivering profitable games at very affordable prices. I personally think that professional club rugby league in this country is overpriced. Hopefully the clubs will begin to think more about their games as events and promote them accordingly. Wigan do this well with "The BIg One" and the £10 tickets for it. More clubs should.

 

Back of the fag packet, and not a reflection of reality, but an indicator:

 

a ) 20,000 sales at £8 per head = £160,000 gross revenue

b ) 10,000 sales at £13 per head = £130,000 gross revenue

 

In addition, scenario (a) gives more purchase power with the stadium company or, if you own the ground, with suppliers; greater merchandise sales etc.

 

Clubs need to see that they can market to the wider audience, that the untapped interest is there and will come out for events, not games.
 


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#20 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

The only legacy that the Olympics have left is that gold medallists have become millionaires and feature on adverts for banks
To imagine that the rugby league world cup's legacy will come within a light year of even that is a little fanciful
There will be benefits in terms of the sports image, credibility, and marketability and that's plenty to be thankful for
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