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Rebel super league clubs now totalling nine


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#301 nadera78

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:02 PM

It must be an aim of the game to get to 24 full time teams ie 2 divisions of 12.The second division would operate on much lower salary caps -but if this was achieved promotion and relegation (the heart of the British sporting phsyce) would be a lot easier.If we compare ourselves to soccer we go from the Premiership/superleague to rthe Skilpremiership/Championship.Interesting to note that in the Skill Premiership two-thirds of the teams are full-time.

The mistake you make there is comparing RL to soccer. That's just insane.


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#302 sweaty craiq

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

Is it? Will it??

 

The championship is full of clubs who had to go dual registration to compete selling their souls, clubs who count their crowds in the hundreds when they used to count them in the thousands.

 

Leigh have struggled recently for money and fans, Sheffield have lost their ground and had to go back to the dog track, Halifax are halifax not the club they once were.

 

The two clubs that go down will lose a £Million a year funding and could both go into administration and lose thousands of fans too.

 

Reality check needed.

Some really clueless and blinkered assumptions there, I admire your consistency. The challenge facing the RFL is how they create something for the CAS Wakey Fev Widnes Leigh Fax Salford London Toulouse HKR types who are either adding nothing to the elite yet are protected inside it or do not have a guaranteed way in

Looking at the England team this weekend Widnes, HKR, Hull, Salford and London have not trained one member of that team - yet Leigh have, its a funny old world - oh and a vision for 2015 Sam Hopkins will also play for England ( I took Ferris as Cas and Westwood as Wakey btw)



#303 yipyee

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

Is it? Will it??

 

The championship is full of clubs who had to go dual registration to compete selling their souls, clubs who count their crowds in the hundreds when they used to count them in the thousands.

 

Leigh have struggled recently for money and fans, Sheffield have lost their ground and had to go back to the dog track, Halifax are halifax not the club they once were.

 

The two clubs that go down will lose a £Million a year funding and could both go into administration and lose thousands of fans too.

 

Reality check needed.

 

Most championship clubs are in the black and re-investing aka fev (see other thread) this would not happen if they were thrust into a league they couldnt afford!!

 

Dual reg is just an easy way for short term loans.....saints loaned o'brien have they sold their soul???? 

 

You have to base attendances like for like.........you cant say leigh got 8k vs wigan and only 2k vs fev.......you have to look at vs fev year on year........ATTENDANCES ARE UP IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP

 

There are already SL clubs cutting costs that should save any hardship dropping down a level.........dont get your point of loosing fans.....I thought P&R was meant to get fans coming in droves!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It would appear you are stating your opinion as fact!! 



#304 Viking Warrior

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

Some really clueless and blinkered assumptions there, I admire your consistency. The challenge facing the RFL is how they create something for the CAS Wakey Fev Widnes Leigh Fax Salford London Toulouse HKR types who are either adding nothing to the elite yet are protected inside it or do not have a guaranteed way in
Looking at the England team this weekend Widnes, HKR, Hull, Salford and London have not trained one member of that team - yet Leigh have, its a funny old world - oh and a vision for 2015 Sam Hopkins will also play for England ( I took Ferris as Cas and Westwood as Wakey btw)


you forgot to add bradford to your group. they are adding zilch to SL at the moment. and never forget that richie myler is a current international who was brought through by widnes.

Edited by Viking Warrior, 22 November 2013 - 05:50 PM.

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#305 bamfordsbeans

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:42 PM

My point is that there is a massive gap between superleague and the championship.With a reduced salary cap it may be that superleague 2 is able to offer players a full-time salary of approx £30-£35k.Ideally 2 x divisions in the long-term-but more realistically 2 x 10 for the time being.With this structure promotion and relegation is more realistic as players are still full-time. Imagine if you are in Superleague on a salary of £70k and relagation means halving your salary and vice versa. A lot more meaningful fixtures.



#306 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:19 PM

It must be an aim of the game to get to 24 full time teams ie 2 divisions of 12.The second division would operate on much lower salary caps -but if this was achieved promotion and relegation (the heart of the British sporting phsyce) would be a lot easier.If we compare ourselves to soccer we go from the Premiership/superleague to rthe Skilpremiership/Championship.Interesting to note that in the Skill Premiership two-thirds of the teams are full-time.

 

 

It might be the heart of the British sporting psyche in some  sports, but it has never had much time in League. 


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#307 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:26 PM

No it won't.

 

Salary cap of £1m mooted, allowing a largely pro set up, which makes the rest of you post redundant.

 

What i would like to know is where are these mooted £1m's going to come from.


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#308 sweaty craiq

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:33 PM

you forgot to add bradford to your group. they are adding zilch to SL at the moment. and never forget that richie myler is a current international who was brought through by widnes.

 

Always classed  Myler as Widnes grown when Salford were claiming him- laughed no end when they whinged about Wire 'Stealing' him too - we both know where the theft took place. I class G and S Burgess as Bradford grown



#309 sweaty craiq

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

What i would like to know is where are these mooted £1m's going to come from.

 

I will print this in BIG letters to help

 

Current champ cap £3-400,000 pa with £75000 from RFL

 

Proposal was Champ Grand Finalists got £550000 and £500000 for the 2015 season

 

£550000 - £75000 is a central fund increase of £475000

 

Add the £475000 to the £3-400000 current salary with the balance covered in gates and sponsorship means a £1m salary is affordable for the top 2



#310 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:47 PM

I will print this in BIG letters to help

 

Current champ cap £3-400,000 pa with £75000 from RFL

 

Proposal was Champ Grand Finalists got £550000 and £500000 for the 2015 season

 

£550000 - £75000 is a central fund increase of £475000

 

Add the £475000 to the £3-400000 current salary with the balance covered in gates and sponsorship means a £1m salary is affordable for the top 2

Erm... I don't understand those figures... :ph34r:



#311 Ponterover

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

Erm... I don't understand those figures... :ph34r:

 

I do



#312 yipyee

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

I do


I don't,
How can u predict gate and sponsorship? ?

Why would it be more than now?

#313 sweaty craiq

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:30 AM

I don't,
How can u predict gate and sponsorship? ?

Why would it be more than now?

 

When Wigan play Saints next season do you think it will be a bigger gate than when they play London/HKR/Salford/Wakey/Cas ??



#314 JohnM

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:55 AM

Shouting doesn't make you right. We are right to worry about your sums if your guestimates of Leigh gate revenue and crowds are anything to go by.

#315 The Parksider

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:32 AM

Most championship clubs are in the black and re-investing aka fev (see other thread) this would not happen if they were thrust into a league they couldnt afford!!

 

Dual reg is just an easy way for short term loans.....saints loaned o'brien have they sold their soul???? 

 

You have to base attendances like for like.........you cant say leigh got 8k vs wigan and only 2k vs fev.......you have to look at vs fev year on year........ATTENDANCES ARE UP IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP

 

There are already SL clubs cutting costs that should save any hardship dropping down a level.........dont get your point of loosing fans.....I thought P&R was meant to get fans coming in droves!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It would appear you are stating your opinion as fact!! 

 

Well perhaps you should get your RL yearbooks out and look at club attendances for the second tier since the game entered the modern era when SKY came along. It is a fact second tier RL has lost it's appeal big style. If you call being given hundreds of thousands of pounds by two rich men "re-investing" at Featherstone then it's not. It's philanthropy. If any championship clubs are in the black then I guess they have a few quid over at the end of the season that will pay for a party. As for SL clubs cutting costs again it was Mr. Sadler that said struggling SL clubs were loaded with debt and cutting their SKY income would cripple them. It's too late to cut costs when your loaded with debt, look at how Halifax drastically cut costs 2003 to avoid administration they have never recovered since. With respect I'm not sure you are reflecting the facts?



#316 The Parksider

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:39 AM

Some really clueless and blinkered assumptions there, I admire your consistency.

 

Why thank you my good Sir!!

 

I am fine for P & R to happen so that your club and others like can show us how to make the smooth transition from the Championship to Superleague on such small turnovers, small gates, no great amount of private investment, and an SL neighbour trying to pinch all your local support and best players.

 

Lets go for 2/12/3/8 just so we can find out if wishful thinking works?



#317 amh

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:44 AM

I wonder if this will help any clubs out?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-25060904

 

Tax relief for grass roots clubs


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#318 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:52 AM

Why thank you my good Sir!!

I am fine for P & R to happen so that your club and others like can show us how to make the smooth transition from the Championship to Superleague on such small turnovers, small gates, no great amount of private investment, and an SL neighbour trying to pinch all your local support and best players.

Lets go for 2/12/3/8 just so we can find out if wishful thinking works?

And you wonder why you get the responses you do with provocative posts like that?

What "solution" isn't "wishful thinking"? There is no "proven" solution, so for people to keep using this as some kind of argument to prevent change is pretty lazy.

It's wishful thinking to think we can keep doing what we're doing and all our problems will solve themselves.
It's wishful thinking that a return to P&R will reap the same rewards but offer the same problems as 2001-2007.
It's wishful thinking that a new system will solve any of the issues the other two systems couldn't.
It's wishful thinking that mergers will solve anything.
It's wishful thinking that ploughing money into new areas will work regardless.

Anything can be termed as wishful thinking, and quite accurately. It's not an argument.
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#319 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:08 AM

Go and have a look at the other thread and see what SL clubs provide for their players. Then come back and tell me that 17 players training full time would mean they can compete with fully professional clubs.

That thread discusses the wage bills for staff at top SL clubs. Do you think that they pay the same at the bottom? If they do, they're not paying the right people!

It works both ways. Just because someone is getting paid more doesn't mean they do their job better. But if an athlete is full time rather than part time, they have more training hours to become better athletes. That can make a huge difference. If you think going from part time to full time wouldn't make athletes more competitive, why do we have full time sportsmen?

As for then being "able to compete with fully professional clubs", we're not asking them to play St Helens. We're asking then to play the likes of Cas, London, Widnes, Wakefield, Bradford, etc. Clubs that are struggling on the field. Recent results show they are already competing (not necessarily winning all the time, but getting within very close scores most of it). So yeah, I think having more full time players WOULD help them compete FURTHER with these clubs at the bottom end of SL (since they're already doing OK against them in head to head matches).

It might be "their Wembley" when they meet in the cup, but they're only playing them (SL clubs) four times here. It's possible for a few upsets whether you like to admit that or not.
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#320 bamfordsbeans

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:38 AM

One thing this world cup has shown is their is a big appetite for the game from supporters outside 12 teams in super league(I won,t count London and salford).The attendances at Leigh,Halifax,Rochdale and Workington show this.

I know for a fact many lapsed supporters attended these games-and the game has to try and address this rather than the present closed shop.






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