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Cumbria for Super league


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#1 joe elliot

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:48 AM

I noticed there was a few commenting on it so why not have a thread.
Somebody suggested that the three clubs could share the games, I have never thought of this but the more I think of it the better the idea sounds.
Barrow can achieve big crowds for games and the west Cumbrians are the same. It has been proved, so it just needs a business man to come up with a well organised plan.
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#2 Mister C

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:31 AM

its easily dismissed but the world cup has also got me wondering if it can be done.

Could the Cumbrian Whatevers be at the top of the pyramid with Barrow, Workington and Whitehaven still existing at the level below?

Home games shared out between each club with a game at Carlisle and potentially something at Penrith as their new Football stadium looked very smart when i drove past!

i think the loss of each clubs identity would be the stumbling block

with proper planning the logistics could be overcome

Edited by Mister C, 11 November 2013 - 10:33 AM.

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#3 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:36 AM

waits with baited breath for the toulouse for super league brigade to start rubbishing the idea........of course cumbria should have a presence in the top flight, one of the games strongholds..
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#4 nadera78

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:52 AM

waits with baited breath for the toulouse for super league brigade to start rubbishing the idea........of course cumbria should have a presence in the top flight, one of the games strongholds..

It's not one or the other.


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#5 goldcoaster

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:06 PM

I agree Cumbria deserves a side. But they need a new stadium for it to happen. Derwent Park looked an awful ground on TV, and if that is the best one in Cumbria, then it's clear some new infrastructure is needed first.

 

What's the update of the proposed Pow-Beck Stadium in Whitehaven?


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#6 RSN

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:10 PM

I agree Cumbria deserves a side. But they need a new stadium for it to happen. Derwent Park looked an awful ground on TV, and if that is the best one in Cumbria, then it's clear some new infrastructure is needed first.

What's the update of the proposed Pow-Beck Stadium in Whitehaven?


Barrows ground is better than Workingtons, but not by much although we are steadily improving it.

#7 yipyee

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:17 PM

its easily dismissed but the world cup has also got me wondering if it can be done.

Could the Cumbrian Whatevers be at the top of the pyramid with Barrow, Workington and Whitehaven still existing at the level below?

Home games shared out between each club with a game at Carlisle and potentially something at Penrith as their new Football stadium looked very smart when i drove past!

i think the loss of each clubs identity would be the stumbling block

with proper planning the logistics could be overcome

You could have the training base in Carlisle, therefore not to 'step on the toes' of the other clubs....

 

Link with uni/college/schools in Carlisle,

 

Promote 1 / 2 big 'events' a year in Carlisle,

 

Make the other clubs bid for / promote / market the other 12 games, (Aka the World cup)...

 

Sell sponsorship/ season tickets as all games, and packages for 'area' games,

 

If there's no bid for 1 game take on the road Penrith, North East, across the border???? Anywhere to raise the profile of the Brand!

 

As for receiving travelling support....Your side might play in ....(Insert venue)...... once every four years so venues wont become stale...

 

If marketed properly it would be a pathway of..... amateur club, local semi-pro club, County side, National team!!



#8 yipyee

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

Barrows ground is better than Workingtons, but not by much although we are steadily improving it.

With a 'visiting' county side, additional revenue would be raised to further invest and maximise future revenue....



#9 Keith T

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:20 PM

This subject has been discussed so many times in the past and it always fails because of the petty parochial attitude of some of the existing fans of both clubs in West Cumbria. A typical example is the suggestion that if finance could be found to build a stadium at the Lakes College which is almost mid-point between Workington and Whitehaven, it could be done. Fans from both clubs seem to believe this is the only solution but then again it would be built in Allerdale Borough Council area (Workington) and that would mean no SL in Copeland Borough Council area (Whitehaven) and therefore would be seen as just a Workington team. It really does need a financial backer, like the good Doctor Marwan, to get a grip of the area and set the ball rolling.

I wouldn't include Barrow in this plan because of the distance (60 miles) between Barrow and Workington with a very poor main road to negotiate and many west Cumbrian fans wouldn't do that journey on a regular basis and vice versa.

There are many people around west Cumbria who would attend SL matches but don't currently attend either club. There are also many people who travel every other week to the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Leeds to follow SL but yet poo poo the idea of a west Cumbria SL joint team. The biggest question asked is "what if the SL team failed?" if the two current teams were abolished or even down graded to feeder teams we would be further back than we are now!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#10 Mister C

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:29 PM

Under the current set up there would be 12 home games so it would be 4 each If scheduled properly so as not to clash with the respective club games i think you could get crowds averaging around 5,000 at the start (basing this on recent challenge cup gates against the big teams) As stated above i'd be happy to buy a season ticket for the games held at Barrow. If the administration were part of a Cumbrian RL initiative to benefit RL in the whole county they would probably sell me some tickets to Barrow games as well (i'm currently lax in that regard) Could this work in a similar way to Catalans? It would certainly build on what we have and would draw in the other areas of the county which are currently missing out on RL

#11 EastLondonMike

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

Would be great to see, but would Whitehaven, Barrow and Workington fans come out in greater numbers and watch a side while their own teams are playing the same weekend?.. or are we suggesting one team in Cumbria?


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#12 Mister C

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:30 PM

Would be great to see, but would Whitehaven, Barrow and Workington fans come out in greater numbers and watch a side while their own teams are playing the same weekend?.. or are we suggesting one team in Cumbria?

i'm wondering if people from Barrow and the surrounding area would come to watch Cumbria vs Wigan on the Friday night on the same weekend that Barrow are away somewhere

Could a decent central marketing team push 4 "events" a season to the 100,000 people in Furness?

2 "events" at workington have attracted an average of 8500

We attracted 6800 to the Wigan CC game a few years ago. A number of them were Wigan fans from the Barrow area!

In a similar way to Catalans, "expansion" would be on the back of an area with strong RL tradition

And also could the central marketing team sell 1 game to the people of Carlisle which would be genuine expansion?

All of this would be the top of the pyramid of Cumbria RL including an academy etc to keep the top young players in Cumbria

#13 bearman

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

It's too cold in Cumbria, Barrow was a lot warmer when it was in Lancashire.
Merge Barrow with Coventry then I only have to go to one game a week!
(And it will be warmer.)

Edited by bearman, 11 November 2013 - 04:02 PM.

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#14 yipyee

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:06 PM

This subject has been discussed so many times in the past and it always fails because of the petty parochial attitude of some of the existing fans of both clubs in West Cumbria. A typical example is the suggestion that if finance could be found to build a stadium at the Lakes College which is almost mid-point between Workington and Whitehaven, it could be done. Fans from both clubs seem to believe this is the only solution but then again it would be built in Allerdale Borough Council area (Workington) and that would mean no SL in Copeland Borough Council area (Whitehaven) and therefore would be seen as just a Workington team. It really does need a financial backer, like the good Doctor Marwan, to get a grip of the area and set the ball rolling.

I wouldn't include Barrow in this plan because of the distance (60 miles) between Barrow and Workington with a very poor main road to negotiate and many west Cumbrian fans wouldn't do that journey on a regular basis and vice versa.

There are many people around west Cumbria who would attend SL matches but don't currently attend either club. There are also many people who travel every other week to the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Leeds to follow SL but yet poo poo the idea of a west Cumbria SL joint team. The biggest question asked is "what if the SL team failed?" if the two current teams were abolished or even down graded to feeder teams we would be further back than we are now!!!

Its interesting that you are limiting Cumbria to the West Coast? 

 

Its also interesting you feel a new stadium is necessary! 

 

Hopefully 3 / 4 games would revitalise the appetite to watch live RL and Barrows / whitehaven / wokingtons gates would improve! 

 

If a fan wanted to watch all games it would still be closer (60 miles) than going to Hull, London,France etc...

 

Marketing could work in a number of ways double headers??!!

 

If it didn't work it wouldn't be 'further back' it would just be the same as now?.....



#15 joe elliot

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:09 PM

Realistically because of the population and spread out nature of cumbria each club would struggle to be anything more than mediocre in super league. However a proper Cumbria team could potentially challenge the top boys, if ran the way people suggest.
The 4 games each format would guarantee massive crowds, barrow could of got 10000 against Wigan if the health and safety hadn't restricted the capacity. The talent is already and the passion would be for the fans too as there not just supporting a franchise plucked out of thin air it's a county that Cumbrians are proud of.
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#16 Jonty

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:28 PM

It's a reasonable question, and I think Cumbria can support a SL presence, but personally I don't think it's the best way.

Whilst we saw great crowds at Workington, it's worth noting that people came to those games for the "event", just like they did at Barrow v Wigan in 2009 and, for more emotional reasons, the Cumbria v England game a year later. These have been the county's only other SL standard attendances in recent years.

The Workington SL presence in 1996 didn't convert into crowds, and in many ways it could be argued that it set rugby league in the county backwards. Under the licensing system a West Cumbrian "franchise" might have been viable - or indeed a stand alone Barrow/Morecambe Bay bid - but county-wide is very difficult indeed. It's not just the distances and travel times that are an issue. Culturally, as Bearman has hinted at, the west and the south are quite different. Whilst very few Furnessians of my generation and younger (aged 36) would consider themselves Lancastrian over Cumbrian, even fewer would look up the coast rather than across the Bay. We don't even share the same regional TV network for starters.

My own personal feeling is that any investment would be better spent into continuing the big events and reinvesting the legacy into grassroots and player development.

Super League isn't just about 1st team rugby. It's about the supporting infrastructure that comes with it - establishing a player pathway, supporting youth and community rugby and generating sufficient income to compete. Now that P&R is on the verge of a return in the pro-game, why take away the hopes of the three pro clubs and any other future teams that may emerge?

Cumbria, historically, was always a dead-cert for the antipodean tourists. Why can't that be the same again? That way the game gets big events, like those seen over the past fortnight, that local people will come out to see. If run correctly, profits could be re-invested in development in the county, supporting community and pro-clubs alike, whilst allowing Cumbrian players the opportunity to compete at a world class level.

A one-off tokenistic game against the Kangaroos though isn't enough. What it needs is a regular contest, and what better way than a parallel event to the Exiles' break - City v Country. There is a consensus in the game that people want to see "London" use Londoners, or at least Southerners. At the same time, we need to grow the player pathway in the capital, particularly at representative level.

City v Country - London v Cumbria - could that become an event?

What of the game below SL?

Investment needs to focus on growing the youth player pool and retaining players in the game into open age. Ringfenced RFL funding in Cumbria for individual academy team(s) in partnership with the pro-clubs would go some way to offsetting the player loss to SL academies, encouraging local players that they have a future in the game at home, without an hours drive to the nearest motorway, let alone SL club.

Growing the player pool will increase the quality of local  talent that is retained by the local teams. We always hear about how Cumbria is a hotbed, and then the clubs look overseas for players. That in itself is a challenge. It is often cheaper for a Cumbrian club to recruit an overseas player and relocate them to the county than it is to sign an England qualified player from the heartlands and pick up the expenses tab. A greater player pool retained at 16+ in the county would offset reliance on either.

Cumbria though, is undoubtedly a special case, both as a hotbed of rugby league and through it's own isolation and rurality, and special cases need special solutions.


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#17 Keith T

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:07 PM

yipyee - if you have ever travelled the road from Workington to Barrow and return you wouldn't need to ask the question re. location and the stadiums at both Workington and Whitehaven are past their sell-by date and no amount of tarting them up is going to make them suitable for SL.

I can't agree with some of what Jonty says about giving Cumbria games every now and again because that is basically retaining the status quo. When people talk about London they talk about giving young lads something to aim for without having to travel north to the heartlands if they want to play in SL. However, when we talk about young lads in Cumbria having something to aim for they are told to get on their bikes and head for the M62 corridor.

Why pick Lillyhall area for a new stadium? As I said it is almost equidistant from each town and there is already large education establishments there - the Lakes College, Energus, Construction Skills college, and based at this locus is the RFL's Academy for Cumbria, and they will be playing games in the Academy League this coming season, I believe. So, young lads from Cumbria can aim to get to the Academy and then they have to get on their bikes.

There is a lot of dormant support for this plan but the main drawback is finance. I can't remember who it was said "build it and they will come" but that is the sort of situation in Cumbria and for that reason I cannot see it ever getting off the ground.
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I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#18 OttO

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:23 PM

One club in West Cumbria is doing it's best in trying to sign and develop some of the areas best local amateurs, whereas the other seems seems to be intent on signing out of county players.


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#19 GeordieSaint

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:31 PM

My own personal feeling is that any investment would be better spent into continuing the big events and reinvesting the legacy into grassroots and player development.

 

You are not wrong in my opinion with that sentence. I knew once a few areas got good crowds that people would be shouting from the rooftops about 'x-location for SL' etc. If we are truly serious about developing our game beyond the current stalemate that is professional club RL, investment should be spent on big events and the grassroots before anything else. The club game will develop on the back of those two areas...


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#20 yipyee

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:06 PM

If there was a cumbria side the academy would be afiliated?

The roads not an issue as the games would come to the people, not the other way round...

If the location mentioned is best for a stadium why doesnt one club build a new one there?

If say whitehaven play all there games there and then 3/4 sell out 'events when cumbria rl is in town' that would help pay for it?

As stated when exiles games are on Cumbria could play a national team? Or another county?

Money raised from this could fund amateur county comps...

If some people dont 'feel' cumbrian what better way to break down barriers than sport?




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