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16/11/13 - World Cup QF3: England v France (Wigan, KO 8pm)


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392 replies to this topic

Poll: Who will win? (44 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. England by 21 points or more (30 votes [68.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.18%

  2. England by 11 to 20 points (10 votes [22.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

  3. England by 1 to 10 points (3 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  4. France by 1 to 10 points (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. France by 11 to 20 points (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. France by 21 points or more (1 votes [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#81 back to the future

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:21 PM

then it will be a shockingly bad show from a club that gets 20k regularly for non Saints games when it puts its considerable marketing talent to proper use..

Bit of wishful thinking there



#82 flyingking

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:45 PM

Interesting (or alarming) reading for anyone who has a view on the selection of the halves.
http://www1.skysport...-team-selection
www.twitter.com/flyingking2

#83 dibbley

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:54 PM

Dibbley - have you looked at our results over the last 2 years, including this World Cup? They're not too bad at all. We have played Australia 3 times and given them good games for 2 3/4 of the time, and hammered New Zealand. Against the lesser nations we have been at least par for the course. If we had lost 52 4 against the Aussies then I could see how McNamara would merit being written off. I would have thought after our performance last week - softening up then killing off a decent side - that he has earned the right to continue to back Chase and Sinfield. With Sam and Lockers we have a good balance between structure and flair. The one thing which has always troubled the Aussies has been flair and the unexpected. Widdop is at best a play by numbers, efficient player surrounded by geniuses in his club. He's not the answer.
Anyway, one thing that strikes me talking about the England games to newcomers/latecomers/neutrals is that hey enjoy seeing England win and win well. A big victory may not fool the RL purists but it could persuade a lot of people to watch at Wembley in person or on TV. There'd be a good story to be told off the back of that.
In the battle for old and lapsed and new hearts and minds a comprehensive victory would do very nicely.

 

In the last 2 years we have played Australia 3 times, and lost 3 times, how is that not bad at all? 

 

We lost to them in 2010, and in 2009. 

 

The other games were against France, Wales and NZ.  We beat NZ by 22 points, which you have called a hammering.  Australia beat us by 22 points a week later, but you call that giving them a good game?

 

Then there was the defeat to the Exiles.

 

The results have been as expected.  Last week do you think the plan was to soften up and then kill off the opposition?  We should have been at them from the start, and when we were far enough ahead we should have been putting on plays and working on the things we'll need to get right against NZ, and then hopefully Australia.   Whilst in Limerick under worse conditions Australia were patient, played accordingly and got in plenty of practice with their kicking game which they will use against their opponents in the final.  They are building up to it nicely.

 

Like I said nothing against Rangi, and we're going alright too.  In my opinion there are better options, and in my opinion I think you are way off on your summing up of the ability of Widdop.  Have you watched him regularly?  Have you heard what his peers say about him.  He is head and shoulders above Rangi, and just like Rangi, if you had seen anything of Widdop, he can play what is front of him.  He reads a game better, and his vision is better.  I never said he was the answer, I just want the best players playing for my country, it is short sighted of the coach to not even see what he can offer.  His form in one of the best teams in the world has been outstanding, he was not carried by the 3 amigos as you suggested, (not that you called them Amigos) he was an integral part, and major contributing factor to how that team played in a competition that tests the players week in week out.  This experience alone means his decision making will be way ahead of Rangi's.

 

Flair and the unexpected, as the results show, Australia can deal with. 

 

The one thing, the only thing that has troubled the aussies has been putting them under pressure.

 

Our players are not good enough to sustain it at the same intensity and level as Australia, and we drift in and out of good football, as we've demonstrated each week of this tournament so far, and in those previous results down the years.

 

I don't particular rate McNamara, but he's in the job, and for me, has the opportunity to make a difference, I doubt very much that is going to happen.  He is too inexperienced.  Though it really doesn't matter who is in charge as our problems are far bigger than that.  We all know how this ends.  When it is over, we'll have the same debate and conversations we've always had. 

 

What can we do, what is the answer?


Edited by dibbley, 13 November 2013 - 11:57 PM.


#84 westlondonfan

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:55 AM

HE'S NOT A ONE TRICK PONY. HE'S NOT A TEN TRICK PONY. HE'S A WHOLE FIELD OF PONIES. FACT.LA    Paris Surtout was, allegedly, a pretend French poster who in reality came from Huddersfield. I miss his his posts.


Me too!

#85 zorquif

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:16 AM

Who's starting the 'get PS back on TRL' campaign?



#86 Scubby

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:55 PM

Who's starting the 'get PS back on TRL' campaign?

 

There is someone who is pretty much PS posting on RLFans Virtual Terrace forum. I assume it is the same person.



#87 7723

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:34 PM

I can't understand why Widdop has been so underused. He is a fantastic player and offers imo far more then either of our halves. He has a great running, passing and kicking game and is a good decision maker. He can also tackle.



#88 Futtocks

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:38 PM

Charnley and Roby back in. No place for Widdop.


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#89 Banbury Wolf

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

Unless I've missed a post - ENGLAND squad just announced:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/24942348

 

George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)

Sam Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)

Rob Burrow (Leeds Rhinos)

Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors)

Rangi Chase (Castleford Tigers)

Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers)

Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors)

Brett Ferres (Huddersfield Giants)

James Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs)

Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos)

Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves)

Michael McIlorum (Wigan Warriors)

Lee Mossop (Wigan Warriors)

Sean O'Loughlin (Wigan Warriors)

James Roby (St Helens)

Kevin Sinfield (captain) (Leeds Rhinos)

Sam Tomkins (Wigan Warriors)

Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos)

Ben Westwood (Warrington Wolves).



#90 7723

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:11 PM

Unless I've missed a post - ENGLAND squad just announced:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/24942348

 

George Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)

Sam Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)

Rob Burrow (Leeds Rhinos)

Josh Charnley (Wigan Warriors)

Rangi Chase (Castleford Tigers)

Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers)

Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors)

Brett Ferres (Huddersfield Giants)

James Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs)

Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos)

Chris Hill (Warrington Wolves)

Michael McIlorum (Wigan Warriors)

Lee Mossop (Wigan Warriors)

Sean O'Loughlin (Wigan Warriors)

James Roby (St Helens)

Kevin Sinfield (captain) (Leeds Rhinos)

Sam Tomkins (Wigan Warriors)

Kallum Watkins (Leeds Rhinos)

Ben Westwood (Warrington Wolves).

 

I would expect McIIorum/Burrow and Farrell to miss out.



#91 Banbury Wolf

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

I would expect McIIorum/Burrow and Farrell to miss out.

 

I think Burrow adds a lot as a supersub when the opposition is tiring ... as long as the forwards bench isn't compromised unduly.



#92 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:47 PM

Isn't it intersting how Ferres has gone from 25th man to inked into the team? Must do Cudjoe the world of good to have a club combination there. Mc and Westwood/Farrell to miss out for mine.



#93 Griff9of13

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:57 PM

Wouldn't mind Burrow sitting this one out after the bang to the head he got last week. But I suppose the team doc will have assessed him. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#94 EastLondonMike

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:41 PM

even though we all expect us to get past France reasonably easily (hopefully not tempting fate there!), you'd expect at the quarter final stage for McNamara to be settled on his first choice 17 and would select a full strength side from now onwards. Even though i'd have had Widdop and Briscoe in there (ahead of Burrow and Charnley), i think this is the 17 we'll see until we win it or go out of the comp.


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#95 DavidM

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

I just don't get why our great coach doesn't rate Widdop . Has he ever explained it ? The kid is a key plank in the games biggest rugby juggernaut of recent seasons . So is Mr Bellamy the deluded one ? Widdop should be number 6 for England set in stone as far as I'm concerned but alas it looks like he is frozen out while this guys in charge ( not long then ) . I think it's very sad , harms our chances , and it's frustrating that the coach is so stubborn that he can't see the error of his ways and his deficiencies are leading us toward the exit door , when we could be getting much better with more enlightened selection and tactics .

#96 latchford albion

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:12 PM

There is someone who is pretty much PS posting on RLFans Virtual Terrace forum. I assume it is the same person.


Jean Capdouze? I love the internet :-)

On a serious point, is Widdop injured or does McNamara really not rate him? I had believed the theory that he needed extra recovery after his injury but now I just think that McNamara thinks that Chase is the better bet. Chase of course is bigging up the benefits of a settled team: well as Mandy Rice-Davies put it, "Well he would say that wouldn't he."

#97 RSN

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:22 PM

Jean Capdouze? I love the internet :-)

On a serious point, is Widdop injured or does McNamara really not rate him? I had believed the theory that he needed extra recovery after his injury but now I just think that McNamara thinks that Chase is the better bet. Chase of course is bigging up the benefits of a settled team: well as Mandy Rice-Davies put it, "Well he would say that wouldn't he."


Chase had a good season in 2011, McNamara picked his half backs then and hasn't given anyone a look in regardless of club form when it comes to the big games ie New Zealand and Australia.

#98 Big Picture

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

I think we also played them in Avignon in 2011.

By my reckoning this is the complete list of meetings in the last ten years:

 

2003 ― Warrington ― England 68, France 6 ― Att. 2,536
2004 ― Avignon ― England 42, France 4 ― Att. 4,000
2005 ― Leeds ― England 22, France 12 ― Att. 2,609
2006 ― Leeds ― England 26, France 6 ― Att. 5,547
2008 ― Toulouse ― England 56, France 8 ― Att. 8,326
2009 ― Paris ― England 66, France 12 ― Att. 7,369
2009 ― Doncaster ― England 34, France 12 ― Att. 11,529
2010 ― Leigh ― England 60, France 6 ― Att. 7,951
2011 ― Avignon ― England 32, France 18 ― Att. 16,866
2012 ― Hull ― England 44, France 6 ― Att. 8,963
2012 ― Salford ― England 48, France 4 ― Att. 7,921

 



#99 Juan Whonose

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:16 PM

Jean Capdouze? I love the internet :-)On a serious point, is Widdop injured or does McNamara really not rate him? I had believed the theory that he needed extra recovery after his injury but now I just think that McNamara thinks that Chase is the better bet. Chase of course is bigging up the benefits of a settled team: well as Mandy Rice-Davies put it, "Well he would say that wouldn't he."


Latchford - no widdop is not injured at all in fact he's as fit as he's ever been and gagging to represent his country and try his best to win this World Cup for us Englishmen - even his team mates (excl. 6 & 7's lol) are amazed at his treatment by the so called head coach who can't even give the guy a valid reason why he's not been given a fair chance. The guy's left his young family back in Aus just to come over here and make the numbers up for 6 weeks or so which is bang off side in my book, how about you? amazed he's stuck it out tbh - must be a top bloke?

#100 dibbley

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:24 PM

I thought the same thing, the coach could have showed him some respect and said, look you're not in my plans, enjoy your off season with your family, and good luck with your new club next year.  Instead he's dragged him half way across the world for absolutely nothing.