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Is this the future for RL in S Wales ?


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#41 jannerboyuk

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:31 PM

Ok then. Being serious for a moment. Is Maestag smaller than Workington (35,000)? Whitehaven (25,500)? Cleator Moor (12,059)? Two of those have Championship RL clubs and one an amateur RL club.

and that would be great and have potential if we were talking Pontypridd rlfc and Caerphilly rlfc and Bridgend rlfc and neath rlfc and Merthyr and Barry and Llanelli rlfc. But we are not, we are talking one small club isolated in a small town in a sea of union, miles away from even one other rugby league club with an amateur scene on life support
PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#42 jannerboyuk

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:36 PM

Is Bridgend were it all began?

aye. Tenner to get in the half decent grandstand, not too bad beer and food and a club shop actually selling cru gear and good people.
PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#43 jpmc

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:44 PM

aye. Tenner to get in the half decent grandstand, not too bad beer and food and a club shop actually selling cru gear and good people.


Will there be some bad feelings with all that went on?

#44 jannerboyuk

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

Will there be some bad feelings with all that went on?

i don't know enough about the behind the scenes stuff to know. Most animosity seems to be towards Samuels though so if he wasn't involved I don't think there would be bad feelings as such

Edited by jannerboyuk, 12 November 2013 - 11:09 PM.

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#45 dibbley

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

we are talking one small club isolated in a small town in a sea of union

I've been down here from the NW for about 10 years now, and that right there is the problem. It is a sea of Union, and it bores me to tears!  You could smack them in the face with the greatest RL game in the world and they still wouldn't have any of it.  Okay, some might, and have, but they are puddles compared to the sea of kick and clap.

 

What can prosper though is the development of the juniors.  The Unions sides still get rid of kids because they aren't tall enough etc etc.  There is a lot of potential down here to work with the youngsters, and bring them on.



#46 WelshpoolMarauder

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:21 PM

I get the feeling that the Scorpions could be suffering from a similar problem as the 4 rugby union regions do - they're trying to be representative of too wide an area to be effective. South Wales is full of local rivalries and strong regional identities, and trying to lump them together and get them behind one banner is very difficult. There are people who won't go and watch the Newport Gwent Dragons because they've got Newport in the name, and others who won't go because they've got Gwent in their name. How can you win in that situation?

 

There's evidently a lot of people who used to watch the Crusaders in Bridgend who don't go and watch the Scorpions, and I suspect a lot of that is to do with the fact they're based in Neath now, and they consider them a Neath team. Travel may be an issue, perhaps, but not as much as will be made out.

 

Things are a bit different in the North, because we've not had the big names to polarise the rivalries and have always been looked down on by the Southies, so we're more willing to get behind our regional sides regardless of where they're based.

 

If the money was there, I'd say 3 or 4 semi-pro teams in South Wales wouldn't be out of the question. I'd definitely have one in Cardiff, because I think the game needs teams in every capital city, but after that I'd look at towns where lots of people who feel disenfranchised by the actions of the Welsh Rugby Union live - Pontypridd, Ebbw Vale and Pontypool, for example.

 

In that situation, I'd suggest renaming the Scorpions to reflect a smaller catchment area which they could concentrate their efforts on with more focus and probably have more luck building a strong identity that resonates with people more closely.



#47 jonnyg28

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:47 PM

Does anyone actually know what's happening with Scorpions for the 2014 season?

#48 Pen-Y-Bont Crusader

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:06 AM

Maesteg population is about 25 000.

#49 Emosi Koloto

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:00 AM

I'd love to see an u/18 Wales team tour Australia, not only would it be great for the development but also a chance for the players to see how popular RL is.


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#50 The Parksider

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:09 AM

Still think we need a team in Cardiff,

 

What you need is a Superleague side that doesn't run out of money. It put thousands of bums on seats and got people playing when it had the money. Beyond that it seems keeping a foothold is an achievement, but it still ends up with waiting for a messiah.....



#51 OutOfTownRoughyed

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:45 AM

Will south Wales be in championship 1 next season with no coach or signings announced yet? I hope they stay in neath decent setup there

#52 Cardiff Cymru

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:45 AM

Would a move lock stock and barrel to Maesteg make sense for the Scorpions and WRL staff in S Wales ?

1. The Academy is based there
2. The school is very supportive and has excellent local contacts on the council (both town and borough)
3. Maesteg RFC is both more than big enough for both C1 and Championship level and has the requisite bar and function room facilities. Also there are a few ex Wales RL internationals/dragonhearts from the early 2000s at the RU club Karl Hocking, Grant Epton etc. Over 2000 attended an RL game there when Bridgend Blue Bulls were in their pomp.
4. The school has entered every year group in champion schools - a decent pool of players to come through in addition to the Academy players.
5. It's pretty central for all concerned to get there
6. The ONLY WRL Office in S Wales is based there and the school has plans to introduce work based learning courses that could be used to train employees for the club/WRL from September. Already Tesco have agreed to employ some (they are next to Maesteg RFC)
7. If we consolidate in this town and concentrate all our manpower and resources we can properly establish a bridgehead to develop properly and successfully. NWC are doing this in Wrexham...


As I said its all hypothetical but what are your thoughts ?

 

The biggie for me here is that the school would do promotional work, video work and community work as part of their curriculum. They may even do part of the match programme. Also, if offered at a decent price, they'd probably buy tickets to go as well and bring their parents. For me, it would rest on those factors. How much would the school help the club which wouldn't cost the club anything and how many tickets could they generate to create a decent atmosphere and get the cash into the club? The community aspect would then also be outstanding and the development work is already there.


About time I updated this.

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#53 Yakstorm

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:48 AM

Honestly if it's a case of choosing between Maesteg and Neath, it's a much of a muchness.  Maesteg has a town population of 20,612, whilst Neath has a town population of 19,258.

 

Neath has a larger urban area to draw upon, but Maesteg is quite central to both Port Talbot and Bridgend which both have Rugby League communities.  Neath of course is closer to Swansea, whilst Maesteg is that little bit closer to Cardiff, overall you're arguably splitting hairs if it's a choice between the two towns on location value.  The fact the Academy and WRL offices are based in Maesteg in my opinion would give it a slight edge, but being realistic there is no reason why you couldn't base the team between the two if you really wanted to... there is only 10 miles between the two towns...

 

If however we all want to look for somewhere bigger to setup base, then it should be Swansea over Cardiff in my opinion.  Cardiff, unless we have the backers and money to shoot for Super League and make a big deal about it, will seriously be nothing more than a Cardiff Demons with a far bigger payroll...  Swansea is at least close to Neath (and Maesteg for that matter) to not completely lose that fan base, whilst being also close enough to the RL communities in Port Talbot, Bridgend, Swansea Bay, etc... and of course the University already has a team as well...

 

The size of Swansea also means it is still possible for a CC or CC1 team to grab a little of media if they are going well.


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#54 ShotgunGold

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

In that situation, I'd suggest renaming the Scorpions to reflect a smaller catchment area which they could concentrate their efforts on with more focus and probably have more luck building a strong identity that resonates with people more closely.

 

I'm 99% sure that changing names will have no effect whatsoever on how popular the club is.

 

The size of Swansea also means it is still possible for a CC or CC1 team to grab a little of media if they are going well.

 

Without being pessimistic I very much doubt the Scorpions will get much media coverage in Swansea. Swansea City in the Premier League, the Ospreys in the Pro12, Cardiff now in the PL. It's hardly a city lacking top quality sport.

 

I think what we need to do here is ask ourselves what are we actually expecting from the Scorpions??

 

To me they are too small to do the whole shabang - get lots of kids playing the game, get lots of supporters across Wales, aid Welsh players with an aim to finding SL clubs, get into the Championship, provide a link between for amateur clubs across the region.

 

Now I'm not being naive, of course attendances and fans pay the wages. But I do see the number 1 aim of the Scorpions is to get Welsh lads playing and provide them with a stepping stone (hopefully) to Super League. I don't know what the clubs hierarchy think of that but honestly I see that as the main goal. Welsh lads in the SL means a stronger Welsh team which is likely to mean more money coming in and thus more money to pay for the domestic game. It's how the WRU operates with the regions.

 

SWS get crowds of around 250-350, and if they stay put that could grow to say 350-450, but who are we kidding moving to Maesteg (or most other places) I genuinely don't think is gonna increase those figures. There's never a good reason to gamble for the sake of gambling!



#55 The Future is League

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:20 PM

Easier said than done, but progress for me is crowds and income rising year on year. Slow progress is better than no progress.



#56 Ponterover

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:32 PM

I get the feeling that the Scorpions could be suffering from a similar problem as the 4 rugby union regions do - they're trying to be representative of too wide an area to be effective. South Wales is full of local rivalries and strong regional identities, and trying to lump them together and get them behind one banner is very difficult. There are people who won't go and watch the Newport Gwent Dragons because they've got Newport in the name, and others who won't go because they've got Gwent in their name. How can you win in that situation?

 

There's evidently a lot of people who used to watch the Crusaders in Bridgend who don't go and watch the Scorpions, and I suspect a lot of that is to do with the fact they're based in Neath now, and they consider them a Neath team. Travel may be an issue, perhaps, but not as much as will be made out.

 

Things are a bit different in the North, because we've not had the big names to polarise the rivalries and have always been looked down on by the Southies, so we're more willing to get behind our regional sides regardless of where they're based.

 

If the money was there, I'd say 3 or 4 semi-pro teams in South Wales wouldn't be out of the question. I'd definitely have one in Cardiff, because I think the game needs teams in every capital city, but after that I'd look at towns where lots of people who feel disenfranchised by the actions of the Welsh Rugby Union live - Pontypridd, Ebbw Vale and Pontypool, for example.

 

In that situation, I'd suggest renaming the Scorpions to reflect a smaller catchment area which they could concentrate their efforts on with more focus and probably have more luck building a strong identity that resonates with people more closely.

 

That's exactly what my welsh mate was saying only the other day.  The rivalries are similar to those in West Yorkshire and no one would ever consider that a "West Yorkshire" team would be a good idea (except DSK).  It could well be the reason why "South Wales" are struggling.



#57 jannerboyuk

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:47 PM

There is definitely a strong South Wales identity, it just doesn't manifest it self in sport, bit like London in that respect.

Edited by jannerboyuk, 13 November 2013 - 05:47 PM.

PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#58 westlondonfan

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:32 PM

What you need is a Superleague side that doesn't run out of money. It put thousands of bums on seats and got people playing when it had the money. Beyond that it seems keeping a foothold is an achievement, but it still ends up with waiting for a messiah.....


Yes. It seemed a strange decision at the time to allow Crusaders to go under only two years before Wales was a host nation of the World Cup. I remember at the time being very disappointed as I am someone who loves international RL (when it is competitive).

#59 jpmc

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

Letting that particular entity disappear was the best thing that could have happened.

#60 Larry the Leit

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:44 PM

There is definitely a strong South Wales identity, it just doesn't manifest it self in sport, bit like London in that respect.


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