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RLWC 2017 format?


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#1 BenGilesRL

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:14 PM

I know its not over but now we're into the semis and can reflect on the tournament positives and weaknesses, I thought of this...

Group A:Australia, England, New Zealand (play each other twice)

Top 2 to Semi-Final

Group B, Group C, Group D (all four teams)

Top 2 of each group into next round.

Top Group B plays 2nd Group C.
Top Group C plays 2nd Group D.
Top Group D plays 2nd Group B.

Quarter-Finals

Highest ranked winner v Next highest ranked winner

3rd Group A plays lowest ranked winner.

Semi-Finals

1st Group A v QF lowest ranked winner
2nd Group A v QF highest ranked winner

Final.

15 teams, possibility of only 2 big scores - one in QF one in Sf.

What do you think?

Edited by BenGilesRL, 19 November 2013 - 08:32 AM.


#2 Padge

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:16 PM

Stick with similar to this, it worked for me.



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#3 Scubby

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

Stick with similar to this, it worked for me.

 

This. It works.



#4 jannerboyuk

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:29 PM

Keep what we have it works fine and all those teams deserved a crack at the big lads and we got 57k turning up! The only issue is ranking properly
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#5 BenGilesRL

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

Did it work for Ireland (hiding to nothing, poor crowd),
France (great crowds little to cheer),
PNG (hiding to nothing),
Italy (deserved more games),
Scotland (almost didn't qualify undefeated, left with a hiding),
USA (left with a hiding)

3 Quarter Finals one sided

To name a few?

Not saying this current format is or or isn't the way to go, just opening it up for discussion.

Edited by BenGilesRL, 17 November 2013 - 05:34 PM.


#6 Scubby

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

Did it work for Ireland (hiding to nothing, poor crowd),
France (great crowds little to cheer),
PNG (hiding to nothing),
Italy (deserved more games),
Scotland (almost didn't qualify undefeated, left with a hiding),
USA (left with a hiding)

3 Quarter Finals one sided

To name a few?

Not saying this current format is or or isn't the way to go, just opening it up for discussion.

 

Many of the group formats for this year were done on guess work. The top 2 groups will be formed on 2 years of international competition this time. Any quarter final involving Australia or New Zealand has the potential to be a blow out.

 

Aus 52 Eng 4

NZ 49 Eng 6

Aus 50 Fiji 0

 

These are scores from the previous 2 World Cups. As for PNG, Samoa and France - they all had an opportunity to go through to the QFs this time. I'm sure the USA boys have had the time of their lives.


Edited by Scubby, 17 November 2013 - 05:42 PM.


#7 Padge

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:59 PM

Did it work for Ireland (hiding to nothing, poor crowd),
France (great crowds little to cheer),
PNG (hiding to nothing),
Italy (deserved more games),
Scotland (almost didn't qualify undefeated, left with a hiding),
USA (left with a hiding)

3 Quarter Finals one sided

To name a few?

Not saying this current format is or or isn't the way to go, just opening it up for discussion.

 

You can shuffle the deck, but certain teams, for now, have the aces. Later rather than earlier they will come in to play.

 

The early rounds in this format provided a lot of energy to the competition, which provided momentum.

 

It worked, don't try and fix it.


Edited by Padge, 17 November 2013 - 05:59 PM.


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#8 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 06:18 PM

We should leave Australia out of it altogether. It's all beneath them. We could have 4 great pools of 4 with fairly evenly matched teams, filled with enthusiastics leaguies. The winner could play Australia at a place and time of their convenience with NRL refs. :)
I back the organisers to come up with something similar, having learnt a great deal from their experience this time round.

#9 Pottsy

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 06:28 PM

This 14-team format has been fantastic; I really hope they have the sense to stick with it.

The only thing that has let things down has been the seeding (eg, making Ireland one of the top ranked teams!). If they sort that out, this format has been fine

#10 BenGilesRL

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:27 PM

The concept I've stated provides the early rounds in spades. In fact you would have every team providing drama and excitement, and it is a 15 team concept, so allows for one more inclusion.

It also disposes of the need for cross group fixtures, with every team playing the three others in their league, and allows progression for more of those minnows, as well as a perceived successful campaign.

This tournament was good - but it wasn't perfect. If you're not trying to progress you're resting on your laurels and that's dangerous.

#11 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

Keep it the same as this year, just give teams more matches over the next few years, so that the seeding is more informed in 2017.

#12 Padge

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:55 PM

This tournament was good - but it wasn't perfect. If you're not trying to progress you're resting on your laurels and that's dangerous.

 

 but if you change what works for the sake of it then you change for the worse.

 

See if what you have continues to grow.



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#13 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:04 PM

The only thing I'd consider changing would be separating the big teams from being in the same group, but instead having them in a cross group game.

I.e.

Group A - Australia(1), Samoa(5), Ireland(12)
Group B - New Zealand(2), Scotland(6), Cook Islands(11)
Group C - England(3), France(7), Italy(10), PNG(13)
Group D - Fiji(4), USA(8), Tonga(9), Wales (14)

Cross group games between 1&2, 6&12, 5&11.
Top two from each group go through.

Think that would be a lot simpler to understand and a fairer system (whilst also giving a slight handicap for the other sides disguised as a cross-group game that could also be the opening game).

*Just to note, the rankings aren't official by any stretch. I'm just going off how well the sides did in this WC (or how I think they'll do from here!)
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#14 BenGilesRL

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:17 PM

How is this changing for the sake of it?

It keeps the groups of minnows but includes the clubs that struggled against the top sides so there are even more competitive matches.

And it makes every game matter for the big three as top 2 will go straight to semis, other one will have to play an in form minnow.

It takes what worked well from this tournament and makes it better - maybe it isn't explained clearly enough?

Example groups:
Group A: England, Australia, New Zealand

Group B: France, Scotland, Tonga, Cook Islands

Group C: Samoa, PNG, USA, Wales

Group D: Fiji, Ireland, Italy, Canada?

Top 2 from B C D qualify for next round



Anyway now it's explained this is assuming things will be as they are now. Maybe there will be four more clubs that can challenge the three in 2017, and I would love for that to be the case - but if things remain as they are this could provide even more meaningful matches and I am surprised at the negative reaction.

#15 Black Country Wire

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:37 PM

My only tweak is that for the quarter finals I'd have gone:

1st A v 3rd B

2nd A v 1st C

1st B v 3rd A

2nd B v 1st D


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#16 bobbruce

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:47 PM

How is this changing for the sake of it?

It keeps the groups of minnows but includes the clubs that struggled against the top sides so there are even more competitive matches.

And it makes every game matter for the big three as top 2 will go straight to semis, other one will have to play an in form minnow.

It takes what worked well from this tournament and makes it better - maybe it isn't explained clearly enough?

Example groups:
Group A: England, Australia, New Zealand

Group B: France, Scotland, Tonga, Cook Islands

Group C: Samoa, PNG, USA, Wales

Group D: Fiji, Ireland, Italy, Canada?

Top 2 from B C D qualify for next round



Anyway now it's explained this is assuming things will be as they are now. Maybe there will be four more clubs that can challenge the three in 2017, and I would love for that to be the case - but if things remain as they are this could provide even more meaningful matches and I am surprised at the negative reaction.


Am I missing something don't you end up with 7 teams in the quarters.

#17 Dave T

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:06 AM

Tweaks.

2008 format was very good.

2013 is better.

No reason to just stay as we are for the sake of it.
Principle of keeping minnows playing each other is an excellent one. As long as this is retained we'll be reet.

#18 Cowardly Fan

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:12 AM

I would like to see it expanded to probably 16 teams.  I think it could provide a major boost to a few countries, e.g. Lebanon, Serbia, if they were involved in a World Cup with a good selection of local players.  

 

Lebanon in particular appear promising - they have a league going with some backing from sponsors and media.  Plus Union has made minimal inroads into the Middle-East, and there is a shared identity between Arabic countries, which means it could boost others too.  In contrast if e.g. Japan were to get to the World Cup this would be unlikely to spark anything in China or S.Korea.  As an aside is there any indication of what level the Lebanese league may be?  

 

If they could fit 16 into a similar format to this time that would be great.    



#19 BenGilesRL

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:36 AM

Group A: England, Australia, New Zealand (top 2 to semis)

Group B: France, Scotland, Tonga, Cook Islands

Group C: Samoa, PNG, USA, Wales

Group D: Fiji, Ireland, Italy, Canada?

Top 2 from B C D qualify for next round

Winners of these games = 3 teams.

Best two play each other, worst ranked plays 3rd group A.

Winners enter semis, worst ranked plays 1st Group A, best ranked plays 2nd Group A.

#20 GaryO

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:49 AM

We should leave Australia out of it altogether. It's all beneath them. We could have 4 great pools of 4 with fairly evenly matched teams, filled with enthusiastics leaguies. The winner could play Australia at a place and time of their convenience with NRL refs. :)
I back the organisers to come up with something similar, having learnt a great deal from their experience this time round.


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