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23/11/13 - World Cup Semi Final 1: England v New Zealand (Wembley)


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Poll: Who will win? (110 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. England by 25 points or more (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  2. England by 19 to 24 points (1 votes [0.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.91%

  3. England by 13 to 18 points (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  4. England by 7 to 12 points (35 votes [31.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  5. England by 1 to 6 points (22 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  6. New Zealand by 1 to 6 points (8 votes [7.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.27%

  7. New Zealand by 7 to 12 points (11 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  8. New Zealand by 13 to 18 points (16 votes [14.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.55%

  9. New Zealand by 19 to 24 points (5 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  10. New Zealand by 25 points or more (6 votes [5.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.45%

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#21 Blind side johnny

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:28 PM

England CAN win this but NZ should win it. However if we are at the top of our game and they choke then it will be a possible knighthood for Stevie Mac.

 

Head tells me NZ by a margin, unfortunately.


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#22 Methven Hornet

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:36 PM

I really don't know who will win, or who should win, but I'm looking forward to the game. Is this the 'main course' with Aus/Fiji the starter?


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#23 RSN

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

If McNamara has been nursing Widdop to play him in the big games that would be a huge boost for us, sadly I don't think that's the case.

If McNamara puts 2 second rowers on the bench against New Zealand like he did against France then we are in deep deep trouble. Either Mossop or T Burgess has to come in for Farrell. Farrell is far too small for the Kiwis and the amount of offloads SBW would get out of going into the collision against him could be costly.

We do have a chance though. Although this Kiwi side is a very good one, they haven't shown that they are entirely superior. Fiji beat Samoa by a similar amount of points to what New Zealand did. A 40 points to 4 win against Scotland is not that much impressive either. England have at least been tested in the tournament as they have played the other two semi finalists, and aswell as a much improved France side in comparison to when they played the Kiwis.

There will be many key battles in this game in my opinion. The outside backs is a crucial one. Hall Charnley and Tomkins v Sheck, Vatuvei and likely Locke will be a closely fought contest. We need to maximise the metres we make from kick returns and minimise theirs, we also can't afford to chase down kicks with a half hearted attempt, Sheck has proven in this tournament if he is 1 v 1 with a man he will likely beat them. I was hoping Hall would be against Vatuvei personally as he could expose his faculties in defence. Also with Charnley and Watkins on one side we are going to be physically dominated with Vatuvei on one side, although the same was said with Watkins v Inglis and they didn't fair to badly then.

The Kiwi centres aren't to be feared compared to Australia's. Goodwin and Whare are not superhuman. Goodwin appeared a turnstyle against Samoa. They are good ball in hand but aren't going to physically over power us. The key will be to stop them getting the ball out to the wingers as they are the main threat in the backline. Locke doesn't particularly worry me to be honest, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he is a major threat. Tomkins is the much better player.

I think Sam Burgess should be opposite Sonny Bill Williams personally. He is one of few who can match him physically and stop his offload game. He is capable of physically dominating him in the collision also which is a huge factor. Having them give the ball to SBW to see him destroyed by Burgess would be great for our morale. In attack Burgess is capable of getting on top of SBW which again could be key.

Our props will do okay I'm more than confident of that. Graham was back to his old self against France. Hill and G Burgess more than match their Kiwi counterparts. Another of T Burgess or Mossop has to play though in my opinion. I think McNamara made a huge mistake in not selecting Crabtree in my opinion but we cannot go back on that now. If it's wet I'd go with Mossop as T Burgess' handling isn't good enough for the wet. If it's dry I would go with Tom, as his physical presence would help us massively against a huge Kiwi pack.

Westwood needs to cut out any silly penalties as we just can't simply afford them. Ferres will go fine aswell I reckon he has stood up against every opposition he has come against. Mannering v O Loughlin is more than a interesting match up. Both extremely solid and underrated in my opinion it will be great to see.

Our halves need to step up it's as simple as that. Widdop should play 6 as Chase has only given a decent 20 minutes throughout the whole tournament and his performance against France yesterday was one of the worst I've seen from an England half back in my lifetime. But McNamara will likely persist with Chase anyways. When he does play he needs to play more direct and at least have some form of organisation going on. His off the cuff style does not hack it at international level when his team mates do not know what he is doing.

New Zealand's biggest threat though in my opinion is wearing the number 9 shirt. We can not afford Isaac Luke to be constantly getting out of dummy half and making easy metres. He is in my opinion the best in the world at doing it now. If we let him run riot we will have no chance.

We can beat New Zealand in my opinion but it's going to be tough. We need to get everything tactically right to even have a chance. Their threats can be nullified we just have to play our game right. Bookies have the handicap at -4 NZ which is abit generous for myself.

Come on England.

#24 MrPosh

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:47 PM

<p>Great post, RSN.</p>
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#25 christopher

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

RSN there has been untold amounts if rubbish posted on this forum throughout this WC but your post is certainly not in that category, a great well thought out piece, well done sir.

#26 dibbley

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:59 PM

Agreed Sam Burgess should be opposite SBW, Sam has plenty of form in smashing Sonny, and we'll need the edge that will bring if he can dominate him again.



#27 johnboy1986

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:04 PM

New zealand by four.we would have more chance if we changed our half backs and I also think cudjoe will bottle it.my team would be. Tomkins, charnley watkins ablett hall widdop burrow hill mcolorum gburgess sburgess westwood oloughlin. Subs. Graham ferres roby farrel.

#28 Ant

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:26 PM

Seriously, do people not actually watch how players play before they pass comment on their abilities?

Cudjoe and Watkins kept the so called superhuman Aussie centres quiet at Wembley (and Cudjoe outjumped 4 Aussies for his try). What they have lacked is quality ball with space ahead of them, when they have got it, they have cut loose

Our back 5 are the equal to ANY of NZ or Aus.

#29 dibbley

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:35 PM

No they're not, and the game you refer to was at the Millenium Stadium, not Wembley.

 

The back 3 you could make a case for, but our 3/4 aren't at the same level as Australia's.  They have cut loose against weaker opposition which is what you would expect them to do.  On the left there has been scope for the centre to be far more clinical instead he's gone for the glory option, and has been lucky to get away with it.  His goal line defence has also been very weak. 


Edited by dibbley, 17 November 2013 - 08:36 PM.


#30 Tyrone Shoelaces

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:54 PM

I can't see beyond New Zealand unfortunately. Our decision making is poor, we force the play and we don't respect possession .We also make too many silly mistakes, especially in our own half. The Kiwi's know this and they'll just wait for the inevitable mistakes. I hope I'm wrong but for me it's New Zealand by two tries.

#31 Ant

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

No they're not, and the game you refer to was at the Millenium Stadium, not Wembley.

The back 3 you could make a case for, but our 3/4 aren't at the same level as Australia's. They have cut loose against weaker opposition which is what you would expect them to do. On the left there has been scope for the centre to be far more clinical instead he's gone for the glory option, and has been lucky to get away with it. His goal line defence has also been very weak.


They have got next to zero quality ball, unlike the Aussies and Kiwis

And Cudjoe has put hall in for how many tries now? Doesn't suggest a greedy player to me...and you base his goal line defence on one. Poor tackle v Fiji?

Go back and watch all the Game of the "big 3"

Our back 5 are the match of any.

#32 wirecab

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:35 PM

For England to win:

 

Option 1- All the England team to play to their full abilities- it would work, but Chase's confusion antics work against SL average players they don't against top internationals who watch, don't commit too early, assess and counter. Widdop to play?

 

Option 2- Bribe the Chef at the NZ team Hotel, it seemed to work for the Union team against NZ last year ;)



#33 johnboy1986

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:35 PM

At cardiff watkins did well against inglis but I also think the aussies were far from their best that day.I would say we match them in the pack.but they are far superior from one to seven I think hall woulb be the only one with half a chance of getting in their side.

#34 christopher

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:37 PM

They have got next to zero quality ball, unlike the Aussies and Kiwis

And Cudjoe has put hall in for how many tries now? Doesn't suggest a greedy player to me...and you base his goal line defence on one. Poor tackle v Fiji?

Go back and watch all the Game of the "big 3"

Our back 5 are the match of any.


Our back 5 is easily the best we have had for many many a year, it's all class and we have a choice of 2 class wingers in the right. Last WC we had mark calderwood and ade gardener on the wing.

#35 Saintslass

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:14 PM

At cardiff watkins did well against inglis but I also think the aussies were far from their best that day.

We were far from our best that day too.



#36 bedlam breakout

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:18 PM

I have a feeling a new Zealander will be the downfall for England resulting in a nz win -please don't put that headless chicken in an England shirt.


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#37 dibbley

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:04 PM

They have got next to zero quality ball, unlike the Aussies and Kiwis

And Cudjoe has put hall in for how many tries now? Doesn't suggest a greedy player to me...and you base his goal line defence on one. Poor tackle v Fiji?

Go back and watch all the Game of the "big 3"

Our back 5 are the match of any.

No point going through it with you, you've made your mind already.  I was also thinking about the effort in the corner for one of Australia's tries too.   He was lucky to put Hall in for some of them tries, his first decision was to go for the glory himself, he was lucky the defence wasn't better or he wouldn't have been able to get it out to Hall.

He has all the skills in the world, but his decision making is way off where it needs to be.



#38 IM2

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:17 PM

NZ have had an off spell in most of their games like england. plus they havent really had a game like eng v aus. plus we are at home and in front of 60k+. last WC england were rubbish but only lost by 10 in aus.




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#39 southendsteve07

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:29 PM

Think we can win need a massive 80 mins also cut out pens 10 meters out resulting in a try also pls can we have a French ref and lineman not a newzealand lineman and aussie ref. They are a very good side but so are we come on england kick ass 



#40 back to the future

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:46 PM

if we get within 10 points we've done well,

 

our 3/4 are average apart from Hall

 

our halfbacks are a joke,a srum half who's never played it for his club nevermind internationally that has the pace of Paul Wellens and a stand off that is just a show pony,

 

NZ aint perfect their FB & SH aint no great shakes,but the rest of their team can match ours.

 

might be better going out at this stage than getting totally embarrassed by a up and running Aussie team






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