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23/11/13 - World Cup Semi Final 1: England v New Zealand (Wembley)


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Poll: Who will win? (110 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. England by 25 points or more (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  2. England by 19 to 24 points (1 votes [0.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.91%

  3. England by 13 to 18 points (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  4. England by 7 to 12 points (35 votes [31.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  5. England by 1 to 6 points (22 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  6. New Zealand by 1 to 6 points (8 votes [7.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.27%

  7. New Zealand by 7 to 12 points (11 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  8. New Zealand by 13 to 18 points (16 votes [14.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.55%

  9. New Zealand by 19 to 24 points (5 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  10. New Zealand by 25 points or more (6 votes [5.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.45%

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#701 boxhead

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 10:54 AM

Yesterday showed that we were the better team but just lacked that little bit of belief at the end.
I can't wait until next season now when we play New Zealand and Australia with nearly a full team of hardened NRL players that will have the belief to take them apart.
If we get more players play over there then in 2 years we will dominate the other two not just compete. We've got the talent.

Don't want to be a killjoy but missing out in a Semi Final does not make England the equal of Australia, if they were they would have beaten Australia in the first game where Australia had not played a game together or had any warm up.

 

The Scoreboard said NZ were better after 80 minutes

 

Why would even 30 or 40 players in the NRL dominate the other several hundred Aussies and Kiwis playing in the NRL?


Edited by boxhead, 24 November 2013 - 11:11 AM.


#702 joe elliot

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

Iv put this on somewhere else but there are certain facts that can't be ignored. We will beat Australia and New Zealand consistently if our BEST players play in the NRL. It was belief that beat us yesterday.
There is McNamara's player choice to take into consideration for the World Cup opener. It would of been closer with a working half back pairing and oloughlin.
The last time we came close to beating Australia consistently, our best were going over and playing in the NRL in the off season. Hanley, Crooks, Schofield etc. We have the talent the players lack consistent intensity and belief.
waddell

#703 boxhead

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

Iv put this on somewhere else but there are certain facts that can't be ignored. We will beat Australia and New Zealand consistently if our BEST players play in the NRL. It was belief that beat us yesterday.
There is McNamara's player choice to take into consideration for the World Cup opener. It would of been closer with a working half back pairing and oloughlin.
The last time we came close to beating Australia consistently, our best were going over and playing in the NRL in the off season. Hanley, Crooks, Schofield etc. We have the talent the players lack consistent intensity and belief.

You will beat Australia, no doubt about it, not sure how consistently.

 

Its all good for the game, I wish England were in the Final.


Edited by boxhead, 24 November 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#704 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:21 AM

The Joy.....

11025619445_bb0d45b658_c.jpg


and the pain.....

11025721706_9e560e690b_c.jpg
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen

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#705 Spicer

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:28 AM

A sickener of course at the end,but a real pleasure to have witnessed such a tremendous contest.

The lads can be rightly proud of there efforts.

Thought on the whole the atmosphere was pretty good also.

Good Luck Kiwi in the final.



#706 GeordieSaint

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:50 AM

Still utterly deflated... but agree with Spicer's comments! 


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#707 markleeds

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:53 AM

Should we not be lining Smith at Wigan as the best no. 7?

#708 GaryO

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

We don't have to wait until 2017 as there's the 2014 4nations down under, which promises to be the best yet and I for one can't wait.

 

Can anyone advise when the 4 nations is taking place and the venues? also what is the schedule for the 2015 Lions tour, Thanks.

 

PS as an after thought and this is directed at the officials of the League Express, why don't you get involved in a supporters tour I am sure that after reading all the positives on this thread that it would get a very favourable response, I wouldn't mind staring saving now for either of these "tours".

 

PPS Just wondering if posters who went for it would have to keep their pseudonyms a guarded secret :tongue:   


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#709 GeordieSaint

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:56 AM

Should we not be lining Smith at Wigan as the best no. 7?

 

Nope. We should be looking to develop a pool of half back talent and that would mean investing heavily in the grassroots and schools game in order to produce this talent. 


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#710 GaryO

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

Many points have been raised from the aftermath of yesterday’s game.

 

People have wallowed in a glorious defeat, others not happy and looking for a reason why. I have witnessed many internationals in the 50 odd years I have been watching this great game and yesterdays was up with the best. In fact for mine the match that I considered the “Last” proper test in terms of intensity was between the same nations at Leeds for the 3rd in the series of 1985 a fantastic drawn game, albeit that game was played under rules which are as different as chalk and cheese to today’s sanitised version of test rugby, whatever your ilk, if you preferred the game of yesteryear or the game as played now, yesterday was compelling.

 

I have only once seen reference (in these pages) to what I think was the main contributing factor to that performance yesterday is how we differed to how we have performed in recent years, my reasoning has nothing to do with tactics or game plans, it was down to the psychology of ATTITUDE, we had it by the bag full, none more typified than the first 15 mins of the second half when we had no territory, no possession, on the back of five straight penalty’s and conceding a try, but still had the nouse to come back and take the lead, and I can’t for the life of me agree with the poster who declared that we lost the plot in the last minute. In the last set (after the free kick for the head high) NZ played it with perfection, they drove to the posts for three tackles and sucked us in, then 2 wide balls exposing one on ones, people who have seen my posts no that I am not the biggest fan of KS, but one thing is sure he was in the position he should have been in and as JP said after he was dammed if he went in for the tackle, dammed if he didn’t, for what it’s worth I think they score barring a knock on both ways whatever his decision.       

 

The positives from yesterday far outweigh any negatives; I could go into pages what would be my way of improving the team – we all have our own opinions – who ever the coach is going to be, or whether the powers that be stick with SM, if we can bottle that attitude and take it into every international dressing room in the future, we have the personnel, victory will not be far away of any tournament or series.     


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#711 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:07 PM

 

 

People have wallowed in a glorious defeat, others not happy and looking for a reason why. I have witnessed many internationals in the 50 odd years I have been watching this great game and yesterdays was up with the best. In fact for mine the match that I considered the “Last” proper test in terms of intensity was between the same nations at Leeds for the 3rd in the series of 1985 a fantastic drawn game, albeit that game was played under rules which are as different as chalk and cheese to today’s sanitised version of test rugby, whatever your ilk, if you preferred the game of yesteryear or the game as played now, yesterday was compelling.

 

is this point serious?

 

Since 1985 there have been some absolute classic Test matches.



#712 jacksy

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

Cannot wait for next week c'mon you Kiwis


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#713 GaryO

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:14 PM

Todays report in the Sydney Daily Herald web pages

 

Rugby League World Cup: Shaun Johnson's last minute try steals win for New Zealand over England
 

 He scored arguably the greatest ever World Cup try in one of the competition's most epic contests, he is just out of his teens - and he played on with a suspected broken leg.

Shaun Johnson broke 67,000 hearts by dashing over to the left of the posts with just 20 second left to keep New Zealand's Cup defence alive at Wembley Stadium on Saturday but winger Roger Tuivasa-Sheck was the the true star of an exhilarating 20-18 win over England.

Legendary commentator Ray French called his first-half touchdown, which saw the ball propelled from one touchline to the other, where it was flicked in-field from mid-air, out of bounds - as the best World Cup try since Clive Sullivan's solo effort for Great Britain in 1972.


The excitable 20-year-old left Wembley Stadium in a surgical boot and team doctor Simon Mayhew said he may have broken a bone in his leg late in the match.

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"I put my leg out straight and someone landed on it - I thought I heard a crack," Sydney Roosters' Tuivasa-Sheck said.

"I just had to find something to fight on and keep going. I just looked around at the boys and that's what keeps you going.


"The Word Cup final, it's something that comes only once a lifetime so hopefully I get right for it."

The injury to the competition's leading tryscorer wasn't the only Kiwis buzzkill after a contest for which new superlatives will probably have to be concocted, England tendering a top draw performance only to be denied in soul-destroying circumstances.

Captain Simon Mannering told one interviewer it had been "our worst performance of the tournament" and hero Johnson reckoned: "at times it felt like we were just throwing the World Cup away".


"I was well off the mark ... that's why it is mixed emotions," said Warrior Johnson, who described the try as 'by far' the biggest moment of his career.

"Defensively I wasn't there and that's what I've built my game on this whole tournament. I've been pretty good defensively and I guess if wasn't for that try at the end, it would be a bitter taste.

"It would be pretty hard to look at myself if we had to go home."

After a dismal showing against France, England were not expected to seriously test a Kiwis outfit that had topped the try- and pointscoring charts in the pool and quarter-final stages.

But after an early disallowed try to Kiwi Issac Luke, powerful England rolled down the lush Wembley turf and Sam Burgess' one-handed pass gave Sean O'Loughlin his 16th minute try.

This was converted and later complemented by a Kevin Sinfield penalty goal, before the RTS Express put the finishing touches on a try for the ages.

Jason Nightingale, Sam Kasiano, Kieran Foran and Issac Luke all handled before Dean Whare scooped the Steeden back to Tuivasa-Sheck when the Penrith centre's entire body was outside the field of play - and he was facing the other way.

Even the England players, standing in their own in-goal watching the video referee decide, must have been tempted to applaud.

Johnson added a penalty goal to bring up an 8-8 scoreline that Kiwis coach Stephen Kearney admitted was flattering.

Tuivasa-Sheck's footwork delivered a 43rd minute touchdown to the Kiwis; during this period, the tourists received five consecutive penalties. But after the run was broken, half Sinfield put cenre Kallum Watkins over to tie the scores; the captain missed a relatively simple conversion attempt.

Then came Sam Burgess's bullocking try from close range in the 68th minute, the touchdown that should have secured England a place in the World Cup final.

The Kiwis looked to have been spooked later, Kevin Locke lobbing a ball over winger Nightingale's head, but after a high tackle penalty and with Sinfield rushing up out of the line, Johnson stepped his way over to the left of the posts and serenely slotted home the winning points.

Kearney joked he was "under the desk" as the 11th hour drama played itself out. He said the areas in which New Zealand were deficient were "not had to fix" and was hopeful of Tuivasa-Sheck and Manu Vatuvei each being available for the Old Trafford showdown with Australia.

Rival Steve MacNamara had the good grace to tell a television audience of millions, within minutes of a crushing defeat, "that game put rugby league on the map."


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#714 markleeds

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:17 PM

I personally would not want to see an England team selected only from the NRL. SL is a perfectly good stomping ground for International players, especially the top 4 or 5.

#715 mt smart

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

Iv put this on somewhere else but there are certain facts that can't be ignored. We will beat Australia and New Zealand consistently if our BEST players play in the NRL. It was belief that beat us yesterday.
There is McNamara's player choice to take into consideration for the World Cup opener. It would of been closer with a working half back pairing and oloughlin.
The last time we came close to beating Australia consistently, our best were going over and playing in the NRL in the off season. Hanley, Crooks, Schofield etc. We have the talent the players lack consistent intensity and belief.

Tomkins gets three years of it of course.

 

There is a better than reasonable chance Tomkins will play in the halves for parts of the three seasons he is with us. That would give you more options with your spine configurations if the NZWarriors are forced to use Tomkins as halves cover.

 

I could see a scenario where he would stay there.


Edited by mt smart, 24 November 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#716 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:52 PM

Nope. We should be looking to develop a pool of half back talent and that would mean investing heavily in the grassroots and schools game in order to produce this talent. 

I'd say halfbacks and centres as they are the two positions England is most deficient in.  Maybe throw in hooker too because Robes will only have one world cup left in him assuming his ankles stay in tact.



#717 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:54 PM

I personally would not want to see an England team selected only from the NRL. SL is a perfectly good stomping ground for International players, especially the top 4 or 5.

I would agree totally.  James Graham I think is a prime example of that.  He looked no different, no better or worse, against NZ yesterday than he has against NZ previously or against Australia (when allowed to play!) or Wigan or indeed anyone up for a contest.  Sam Burgess may have looked as good as he did yesterday if he'd stayed in this country into his maturity but he preferred to be down under.  There was class all over the field for England yesterday.  Had there not been, we would not have been in a winning position against NZ at the 79 minutes and 24 seconds mark.


Edited by Saintslass, 24 November 2013 - 01:55 PM.


#718 Trojan

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:08 PM

I would agree totally.  James Graham I think is a prime example of that.  He looked no different, no better or worse, against NZ yesterday than he has against NZ previously or against Australia (when allowed to play!) or Wigan or indeed anyone up for a contest.  Sam Burgess may have looked as good as he did yesterday if he'd stayed in this country into his maturity but he preferred to be down under.  There was class all over the field for England yesterday.  Had there not been, we would not have been in a winning position against NZ at the 79 minutes and 24 seconds mark.

 

Certainly the first time I saw Burgess play, which was against NZ at Wigan in 2007 he looked the business. I've always been a fan of Graham's, despite his playing for Saints and being a Scouser :) but whether their spell in the NRL has improved them is open to question. It was Graham's offload to Burgess and his offload to O'Loughlin  that resulted in our first try, but it was Sinfield's miracle pass round the opponent that resulted in Burgess's try and looked to have won the game for us.


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#719 Vichyssoise

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:42 PM

I didn't read the whole thread. Watched the game this morning. Hell of a match and hell of a performance from both sides.

 

Why did England play only 16 men? I don't remember Ablett being on the pitch at all. Has it been adressed?



#720 Wiltshire Rhino

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

Still absolutely gutted. Momentary relief as my son's football team won today but back to my current gutted state now.

I'm sure I will get over it but I have never, ever felt this empty following a sporting occasion.

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