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23/11/13 - World Cup Semi Final 1: England v New Zealand (Wembley)


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Poll: Who will win? (110 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. England by 25 points or more (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  2. England by 19 to 24 points (1 votes [0.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.91%

  3. England by 13 to 18 points (3 votes [2.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.73%

  4. England by 7 to 12 points (35 votes [31.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  5. England by 1 to 6 points (22 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  6. New Zealand by 1 to 6 points (8 votes [7.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.27%

  7. New Zealand by 7 to 12 points (11 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  8. New Zealand by 13 to 18 points (16 votes [14.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.55%

  9. New Zealand by 19 to 24 points (5 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  10. New Zealand by 25 points or more (6 votes [5.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.45%

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#721 Wjct

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:04 PM

Of course playing in the NRL improves players, IMO.

 

You need to play at a higher level week in week out and you come up against higher quality players week in week out, i don't think theres any question.

 

Our best players yesterday burgess graham widdop (amongst others) play in the nrl. Sure they were good before. Sure they would have been good in SL. But they wouldn't have been able to maintain that quality for the full 80 IMO.

 

Frankly, the more players we get in that competition, the better england will be. Get charnley, hall, watkins matty smith and we'll quickly start to have a team mainly made up of players that play at that level week in week out.

 

It's wierd that, as the super league competition itself becomes drained of stars, is when england could finally achieve success.



#722 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:13 PM


Our best players yesterday burgess graham widdop (amongst others) play in the nrl. Sure they were good before. Sure they would have been good in SL. But they wouldn't have been able to maintain that quality for the full 80 IMO.

 

James Graham has never had a problem playing at that level of intensity for the full 80 minutes.  He'd done that at international level a number of times before he went to the NRL.

 

Ultimately yesterday we lost because of a missed tackle.  It wasn't the first in the game by either side.  It just happened at the death and so robbed England of a fully deserved win.  Had we won, your argument about the NRL would have looked well off base given that most of the England team has never played in the NRL.  It looks pretty much that anyway given that England were in a winning position at 46 seconds from the end AND had fluffed three other clear try scoring opportunities during the course of the match.

 

I do wish some British fans would stop with the romanticising of the NRL as it's just not justified. 



#723 gavin7094

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:27 PM

 
Ultimately yesterday we lost because of a missed tackle.


As is every game.

#724 Jbb10

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

That's the best I've ever seen a England team play and since the majority of ur team is pretty young should be good for years to come. Well done to the coach too has ur team playing some good footy should deffently stick with him think he is growing as a coach

#725 gavin7094

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

Of course playing in the NRL improves players, IMO.


So, Gareth Ellis, James Graham and Sam Burgess only became the players they are because of the NRL? Each of these has won a player of the year award in the NRL, yet they all learned their rugby in the Super League.
Yes by playing in the NRL players have improved. All those who play with and against those 3 players will have improved.
We've got to stop this inferiority complex.

#726 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:39 PM

We've got to stop this inferiority complex.

Hear, hear!

 

And I will add that James Roby, who has never played in the NRL, has also improved.  A few years back he wouldn't have even considered putting in a grubber kick never mind had the ability to execute it so beautifully that in the absence of a try he managed to win another set.  And perish the thought, he improved his game in that respect here in the second rate Superleague!



#727 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

The majority of that team are SL players.They all came through the British development system (apart from Widdop I think).

 

Not a bad thing to have players in the NRL, but it gets overstated at times imho.



#728 Johnoco

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:33 PM

Just watched the ending again. ..it gets no easier to take. :(

Big raps to Sam Burgess, how he conducted himself so well literally seconds after that defeat is a real credit to him. I would have screamed or held my breath or something pathetic.

#729 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:20 PM

Widdop came through King Cross Park Juniors and the Halifax Academy and went to National Camp - But got fed up with it and went to play Union for a few months before he left Australia aged 16. He then went to Altona Roosters who play in Victorian League where he got noticed.

 

SL has not made any of these players. They had the talent and much of the skills the players possess they learnt at amateur clubs. The National Camps and SL Clubs helped them skills to be refined. Sadly SL is a weak comp where the Intensity in many games is not there and the top players are not pushed to their limits. And thats the difference between the NRL and SL players. The NRL pushed players almost weekly to their limits and with the strength in depth even some world class players face being dropped (Like Benji Marshall). Playing in a comp where games are often tight and where you have to play the full 80 and not just 79 minutes it does make you a better player. The concern people should have is where is SL heading and also how much damage will the dropping of the U20s have in future?



#730 RSN

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:23 PM

Widdop came through King Cross Park Juniors and the Halifax Academy and went to National Camp - But got fed up with it and went to play Union for a few months before he left Australia aged 16. He then went to Altona Roosters who play in Victorian League where he got noticed.

SL has not made any of these players. They had the talent and much of the skills the players possess they learnt at amateur clubs. The National Camps and SL Clubs helped them skills to be refined. Sadly SL is a weak comp where the Intensity in many games is not there and the top players are not pushed to their limits. And thats the difference between the NRL and SL players. The NRL pushed players almost weekly to their limits and with the strength in depth even some world class players face being dropped (Like Benji Marshall). Playing in a comp where games are often tight and where you have to play the full 80 and not just 79 minutes it does make you a better player. The concern people should have is where is SL heading and also how much damage will the dropping of the U20s have in future?


So why did a team with 13 players which have played SL all their life come 20 seconds away from beating a side with the best Kiwi NRL players?

I don't understand why people go on about the intensity and class of the NRL, yet when we come to play the NRL's best we really aren't that far away from beating them.

#731 joe elliot

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:42 PM

There's too many people on here missing the point, it's not that Super League is rubbish. Everybody knows that the NRL is more intense, it doesn't mean they are more skillful etc. If our whole England team is exposed to the NRL meaning they play intensely against the Inglis's and SBW every week the belief would be there that they will beat them. We are on the verge of being the best in the world just as soon as we have 10 of our first 13 in the NRL.
I'm not romanticising it I'm stating a fact.
waddell

#732 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:44 PM

Widdop came through King Cross Park Juniors and the Halifax Academy and went to National Camp - But got fed up with it and went to play Union for a few months before he left Australia aged 16. He then went to Altona Roosters who play in Victorian League where he got noticed.

 

SL has not made any of these players. They had the talent and much of the skills the players possess they learnt at amateur clubs. The National Camps and SL Clubs helped them skills to be refined. Sadly SL is a weak comp where the Intensity in many games is not there and the top players are not pushed to their limits. And thats the difference between the NRL and SL players. The NRL pushed players almost weekly to their limits and with the strength in depth even some world class players face being dropped (Like Benji Marshall). Playing in a comp where games are often tight and where you have to play the full 80 and not just 79 minutes it does make you a better player. The concern people should have is where is SL heading and also how much damage will the dropping of the U20s have in future?

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder there. 

 

But anyway.  Unless I'm mistaken, all but one of our players came through into first grade action in Superleague.  Had they stayed with their amateur clubs they would have been slaughtered by about 100 points yesterday.  As it was, they were within 20 seconds of being into the world cup final, and the majority of the team will return to playing Superleague next year.



#733 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:46 PM

There's too many people on here missing the point, it's not that Super League is rubbish. Everybody knows that the NRL is more intense, it doesn't mean they are more skillful etc. If our whole England team is exposed to the NRL meaning they play intensely against the Inglis's and SBW every week the belief would be there that they will beat them. We are on the verge of being the best in the world just as soon as we have 10 of our first 13 in the NRL.
I'm not romanticising it I'm stating a fact.

Is it heck a fact or else only the NRL players would have been moving by the end of the match!  ALL those players had ALL played tough, intense matches and they had been under a programme of intense training and preparation for the likes of yesterday's game.  Yesterday's game, in fact, put paid to the silly notion that the NRL is a better comp because the Superleague guys went toe to toe with their NRL counterparts for the full 80 minutes.


Edited by Saintslass, 24 November 2013 - 05:46 PM.


#734 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

Not one player has played NRL or SL all their life. Stupid comment. SL and the  NRL are finishing schools. But where was the NRL and SL clubs when Sam Tomkins, SBW or Cam Smith was 10 years old playing the game? And you matched and was the better side against NZ. But Did you win? Coming close is not a win is it. When NRL players are used to playing at a higher intensity than SL players, it helps them when playing in such high intense games like yesterday for the full 80 minutes not 79. SL is a weak comp compared to the NRL and why the best players in the world including English players move there. It might not be as pretty as SL for some people but the mental and Physical standards required are higher


Edited by Lounge Room Lizard, 24 November 2013 - 05:51 PM.


#735 joe elliot

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:53 PM

You can believe that if you want to, but if you actually read what the players themselves say then that puts paid to your assertion.
There is no way of training belief into players unless they actually believe it my friend. The facts I have already mentioned about the correspondence between our players playing in there competition and England winning.
waddell

#736 Saintslass

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:57 PM

Not one player has played NRL or SL all their life. Stupid comment. SL and the  NRL are finishing schools. But where was the NRL and SL clubs when Sam Tomkins, SBW or Cam Smith was 10 years old playing the game? And you matched and was the better side against NZ. But Did you win? Coming close is not a win is it. When NRL players are used to playing at a higher intensity than SL players, it helps them when playing in such high intense games like yesterday for the full 80 minutes not 79. SL is a weak comp compared to the NRL and why the best players in the world including English players move there. It might not be as pretty as SL for some people but the mental and Physical standards required are higher

So if England had won yesterday, maybe if Westwood's hand had stuck to the ball (after all he was actually over the line) or if O'Loughlin had caught that great pass to send him under the sticks, would Superleague have been the better competition? 



#737 John Drake

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:59 PM

This SL v NRL discussion is really for another thread. Feel free to start one to continue it. And remember to appreciate that people are entitled to hold different opinions without being called names.

Thank you all.

John Drake
Site Admin: TotalRL.com
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Email: john.drake@totalrl.com


#738 Jim from Oz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:44 AM

If, if, if...more ifs...

I'm sure that I'm not the only person who keeps going through the 'if only' moments. I had a nasty feeling, at the time, that the close-but-no-cigar effort from Westwood and Hall's knock-on - when attempting the (tough) interception - might cost us dearly. There were other moments, too, of course. To point out the obvious, it would have avoided that last-minute lottery.

It's Monday, and I'm now back at work, yet I'm sitting here still thinking, "If, if, if" !!!



#739 mick wilson

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 03:51 AM

What do you think on this Fella's take on both teams players going into this game.



#740 scrape_goose

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:30 AM

So if England had won yesterday, maybe if Westwood's hand had stuck to the ball (after all he was actually over the line) or if O'Loughlin had caught that great pass to send him under the sticks, would Superleague have been the better competition? 

Or if Widdop had gone for the line instead of kicking inside the 10, I'm sure he could've made it. So many if's, still gutted. At least I can enjoy the final without the emotional stress.