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The Pope


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38 replies to this topic

#21 Methven Hornet

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:06 PM

I wonder what it is with the new Pope that's attracting the frothy mouthed comments I've seen quite a lot in positive articles about him, like this one.  Then there's the nutjobs like Sarah Palin saying she's shocked by his liberalism.
 
As a thorough atheist, I quite like the new Pope.  He's a genuine breath of fresh air in the catholic church.  There was one article I saw about him openly considering the first female Cardinal, it's an easy win for him as you don't need to be an ordained priest to be a Cardinal so he can appoint whoever he sees fit without having to fight through the dross as the protestant church has had to do trying to get female Bishops.


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#22 Larry the Leit

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:30 PM

When this pope sorts out the issue of priests abusing children and the sheltering of said abusers then he'll be worth a few plaudits. Until then he's just another dress wearing head of a nutty sect.
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#23 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

Someone recently told me that high Anglcan is very close to catholocism.Is Anglican =church of England?.Sorry for my ignorance but I genuinely don't know.Is Anglican the same church that HenryVIII created?


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#24 John Rhino

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 08:44 PM

Really good quote in the Palin article:

Her statements were slammed by some on social media. Radio 4 presenter Tom Sutcliffe summed it up on Twitter as: “Christianist baffled by an encounter with Christianity.”
Another wrote: “If Sarah Palin's this shocked by Pope Francis, she'll be catatonic when she finally gets round to reading about Jesus in the New Testament.”

:D

Strange isn't it that the right wing religious nut jobs much prefer the Old Testament where slavery, genocide, ethnic cleansing, the murder of disobedient children, stoning for minor misdemeanors, denial of rights to the disabled and the rape of virgins is obligatory.

Edited by John Rhino, 24 November 2013 - 08:49 PM.

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#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:26 AM

Someone recently told me that high Anglcan is very close to catholocism.Is Anglican =church of England?.Sorry for my ignorance but I genuinely don't know.Is Anglican the same church that HenryVIII created?

Yes.

 

But "high church" or "Anglo-Catholic" is a movement within the Anglican church which is indeed very close to Roman Catholicism.



#26 ckn

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:18 PM

The Pope getting a bit close to some sacred beliefs now.  He's going to have to be careful if he's going to continue not using a bulletproof Popemobile.


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#27 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:49 PM

The Pope getting a bit close to some sacred beliefs now.  He's going to have to be careful if he's going to continue not using a bulletproof Popemobile.

Perhaps he should reflect upon the economic wonders of his own country, Argentina, before he opens his mouth on subjects that he does not understand.

 

Trickle down economics isn't everybody's cup of tea but nobody benefits from an economy which has been destroyed by populist BS like this.



#28 WearyRhino

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

Perhaps he should reflect upon the economic wonders of his own country, Argentina, before he opens his mouth on subjects that he does not understand.

Trickle down economics isn't everybody's cup of tea but nobody benefits from an economy which has been destroyed by populist BS like this.


Or maybe he understands the social context and consequences of pursuing tried and failed economics more than you do? That's the problem with free market capitalism - makes no sense in theory and works perfectly in practice (to make the already rich, even richer).

Also, his pontificating, sounds remarkably like Christianity to me!

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#29 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

Or maybe he understands the social context and consequences of pursuing tried and failed economics more than you do? That's the problem with free market capitalism - makes no sense in theory and works perfectly in practice (to make the already rich, even richer).

Also, his pontificating, sounds remarkably like Christianity to me!

It sounds like basic human decency to me

This transcends religion

But it's all a facade designed to protect the churche's wealth and power and to restore its more or less destroyed reputation

This guy is the ideal front man for the operation

The basic repressive structure of the church is still in place as firmly as it ever was and that isn't going to change


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 04 December 2013 - 10:54 PM.

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#30 The Bobster

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

I’m not religious one bit, but during a visit to Rome a few years ago we went on a tour of the Vatican and I was gobsmacked by the opulence of the place. Maybe a good start for the head god pilot would be to redistribute the wealth to the poor and needy. After all its part of their rule book:-

 

Jesus saw wealth as a gift from God to be used in His service (Matthew 25:14-30). Those who have been blessed with wealth must share generously with the poor (Matthew 25:31-46), and avoid the sins of arrogance (1 Timothy 6:17-19), dishonesty (Exodus 20:15Mark 10:19Luke 3:12-14) and greed (Luke 12:13-21).

Those of us who are blessed with wealth beyond our need have a responsibility to share generously with the less fortunate. We should view our wealth as a gift from God, entrusted to us, to carry out His work on earth.


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#31 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

Or maybe he understands the social context and consequences of pursuing tried and failed economics more than you do? That's the problem with free market capitalism - makes no sense in theory and works perfectly in practice (to make the already rich, even richer).

Also, his pontificating, sounds remarkably like Christianity to me!

He certainly should understand the consequences of failed economic policies. He was brought up in Argentina. And yet he hasn't.

 

It's amazing how a system that only makes the rich, richer has managed to provide a much higher standard of living in the UK than in Argentina especially for those at the bottom.



#32 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 10:59 PM

It sounds like basic human decency to me

Basic human decency applied to economics has killed tens of millions of people. Better to stick to exploitation.



#33 ckn

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:40 PM

Perhaps he should reflect upon the economic wonders of his own country, Argentina, before he opens his mouth on subjects that he does not understand.

 

Trickle down economics isn't everybody's cup of tea but nobody benefits from an economy which has been destroyed by populist BS like this.

He's not representing Argentina, he's the Pope.

 

It's not exactly a heresy against first world economics to say that unfettered capitalism is about as disastrous as unfettered socialism.  We're extraordinarily lucky to live in the UK that has a strong sense of capitalism with a moderately robust socialist safety net.  Any attempts to erode that level of social safety net while enhancing capitalism should be opposed just as much as any attempts to erode the UK's current level of capitalism while enhancing socialism.  Many parts of the UK have suffered from rampant capitalism but at least the safety net has kicked in, the same rampant capitalism in the US has just resulted in tent cities, deserted towns and desperate poverty with a safety net that's seriously grudged at best.

 

The concern I have is that anyone who gets caught in the UK's safety net is stereotyped as a scrounger by the media and egged on by all three main parties, all chasing the elusive "focus group" approval of their policies and journalism.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#34 Bob8

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:32 AM

It is amusing to note that whenever the right-wing are alarmed at something the Pope says, the left are smug and remind them he the Pope!

 

Whenever the left-wing are alarmed at something the Pope says, the right are smug and remind them he the Pope!

 

Half the time he is our chosen moral voice of our world and half the time he is an anachronism, who does not know what he is talking about.


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#35 Northern Sol

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:09 PM

He's not representing Argentina, he's the Pope.

 

It's not exactly a heresy against first world economics to say that unfettered capitalism is about as disastrous as unfettered socialism.  We're extraordinarily lucky to live in the UK that has a strong sense of capitalism with a moderately robust socialist safety net.  Any attempts to erode that level of social safety net while enhancing capitalism should be opposed just as much as any attempts to erode the UK's current level of capitalism while enhancing socialism.  Many parts of the UK have suffered from rampant capitalism but at least the safety net has kicked in, the same rampant capitalism in the US has just resulted in tent cities, deserted towns and desperate poverty with a safety net that's seriously grudged at best.

 

The concern I have is that anyone who gets caught in the UK's safety net is stereotyped as a scrounger by the media and egged on by all three main parties, all chasing the elusive "focus group" approval of their policies and journalism.

You seem to be arguing that the UK has found perfection between the two extremes and policy must never deviate from this happy medium. If only life were that easy. We live in a state of constant change and what is a happy medium now may well be "wrong" in the future. Avoiding dogmatism is the thing.

 

Whether he represents Argentina or not, he certainly lived there for most of his life. He's just echoing the knee-jerk populist cr4p that gets people elected in South America except he didn't start bashing the US or the IMF (who of course cause all the economic problems in South America not corrupt populist politicians).

 

The reson why certain towns e.g. Detroit are largely abandoned is because the mayors tried to squeeze the middle class to fund all kinds of stupid vanity projects. They promptly moved and left areas of the city unpopulated. They remain so because land isn't particularly valuable or expensive in the US. It's easier to build a new Detroit in the suburbs than to rebuild the old one. Over here we have scarce land and thus it is valuable. When we have derelict land, there is a lot of commercial pressure to redevelop it. You can't rebuild Liverpool on empty land in Cheshire because there are already towns there. It's nothing to do with a social safety net.

 

He has no more deep insight into how to run an economy than the average pop star.



#36 WearyRhino

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

You seem to be arguing that the UK has found perfection between the two extremes and policy must never deviate from this happy medium. If only life were that easy. We live in a state of constant change and what is a happy medium now may well be "wrong" in the future. Avoiding dogmatism is the thing.

Whether he represents Argentina or not, he certainly lived there for most of his life. He's just echoing the knee-jerk populist cr4p that gets people elected in South America except he didn't start bashing the US or the IMF (who of course cause all the economic problems in South America not corrupt populist politicians).

The reson why certain towns e.g. Detroit are largely abandoned is because the mayors tried to squeeze the middle class to fund all kinds of stupid vanity projects. They promptly moved and left areas of the city unpopulated. They remain so because land isn't particularly valuable or expensive in the US. It's easier to build a new Detroit in the suburbs than to rebuild the old one. Over here we have scarce land and thus it is valuable. When we have derelict land, there is a lot of commercial pressure to redevelop it. You can't rebuild Liverpool on empty land in Cheshire because there are already towns there. It's nothing to do with a social safety net.

He has no more deep insight into how to run an economy than the average pop star.

Avoiding dogma? Like failed right wing economic orthodoxies like Thatcherism, monetarism more generally and trickle-down you mean?

The reason Detroit has collapsed is because people build cars in other parts of the world cheaper.

Edited by WearyRhino, 05 December 2013 - 07:14 PM.

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#37 SE4Wire

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:35 PM

It is amusing to note that whenever the right-wing are alarmed at something the Pope says, the left are smug and remind them he the Pope!

Whenever the left-wing are alarmed at something the Pope says, the right are smug and remind them he the Pope!

Half the time he is our chosen moral voice of our world and half the time he is an anachronism, who does not know what he is talking about.


It's almost like everyone is a massive hypocrite.

#38 Northern Sol

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:40 PM

It's almost like everyone is a massive hypocrite.

Or alternatively, there are certain things that people expect from a religious leader - like religion.



#39 John Drake

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:49 PM

Couple of posts removed from this thread.

 

I know religion is always a contentious subject on here, but there is no need to make it personal.

 

Thank you.


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