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McNamara's halfback headache

rangi chase new zealand rugby league rlwc2013 england

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Poll: McNamara's half-back headache (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Who should England coach Steve McNamara select at 6 and 7 to play against New Zealand on Saturday?

  1. Chase and Sinfield - it's too late to make big changes like this (10 votes [21.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.74%

  2. Widdop and Sinfield - Widdop is more experienced against this opposition (36 votes [78.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.26%

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#41 Viking Warrior

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:44 AM

No, Sinfield IMO starts and plays the whole game or not at all, he can still cover those positions if he starts the game.


now now kevin, self promotion is a little twee don't you think??
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#42 Viking Warrior

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:45 AM

the one player we should have had in the squad was stefan ratchford, an excellent player who can cover many different positions. and is a very good stand off to boot...
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#43 christopher

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:50 AM

now now kevin, self promotion is a little twee don't you think??


Grow up.

#44 scrape_goose

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:51 AM

the one player we should have had in the squad was stefan ratchford, an excellent player who can cover many different positions. and is a very good stand off to boot...

Second best full back in Super League and as you say a very good half back too. Of course just my opinion.



#45 GaryO

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:11 AM

A lot of contrasting views here. 
 
I have had a long think about this. To my mind, Chase has run out of chances at 6 and Sinfield doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders at scrum-half. I think dropping Chase would help the team, but leaving Sinfield out altogether rids the team of experience and a superb right boot.
 
This might ruffle a few feathers but if I were McNamara right now, facing the prospect of a thumping against the Kiwis, I would drop Chase, put Widdop at 6 and Burrow at 7. I'd then relegate O'Loughlin to the bench (I know, he's brilliant, but hear me out) and stick Sinfield at loose forward, where I think he is most effective.
 
This way you inject new life into the side through two clever and fast halfbacks, get rid of the dead wood (I rate Chase highly but let's face it, he's just not in form) but keep hold of one of your most experienced forwards and goal-kickers. There's nothing to say O'Loughlin couldn't come off the bench as an impact player later in the game when McIlorum/Roby is tired and Sinfield switches to hooker.


This is not a witch hunt but could someone please explain to me this enigma that is Kevin Sinfield, in Rugby League terms to a lot of people he takes on the status of a Demi-God, to me it is one of the great conundrums as is “why do men have nipples”

I have been involved in this great game for over 50 years first attending a pro match in 1959 I have played, coached, observed, and am still an avid student and spectator, in that time I have had the pleasure of seeing some of the games all time greats, some very good players, some average and some not so good.

Albeit, I concede that Mr. Sinfield has been an above average club player, and has been an integral cog in a very good Leeds team, a team which has also contained some other very notable long standing players that have also been an essential and fundamental part of the whole gear train that is the Leeds club.

In the list of my supreme, most excellent players Mr. Sinfield would not reach the plateau he has been elevated up to, I consider that he ahs been afforded plaudits in excess of his capabilities, in fact off the top of my head he would not be included in the top 100 of the players I have observed.

In the 4 positions of stand off, scrum half, loose forward or hooker he would not make my top 20 in any of those positions, and as it has been suggested by many on this forum he is not the most accomplished in any of those positions in this squad.

As I said Joe, I have been watching this game for a long period, people base their opinions on their experiences and observations, judging by your “avatar” (unless that is poetic licence), like may others who submit to this forum your experiences are based on a shorter timescale than are mine, and thus would have fewer participants, so if you were to list “your best” I would imagine that Mr. Sinfield would have a higher ranking than I have.

Sorry I digress, back to the topic.

Joe, you state that want Mr. Sinfield to replace O’Loughlin and in your words:-

I'd then relegate O'Loughlin to the bench (I know, he's brilliant, but hear me out) and stick Sinfield at loose forward, where I think he is most effective.

So in your opinion O’Loughlin is brilliant but still you want him replacing in the loose forward position with Sinfield, I can only assume that you consider KS more than brilliant< (I can’t think of an adjective to describe more than brilliant so we will leave it there).

Joe you say we need to new half backs and state This way you inject new life into the side through two clever and fast halfbacks, get rid of the dead wood. This statement I most wholeheartedly support.

Please explain to me what you consider Mr. Sinfield is going to bring extra to the team other than just saying keep hold of one of your most experienced forwards. He would still be positioned at first or second receiver no matter what number he had on his back other than if he were to play 9, or is it that having the 13 shirt on he will suddenly be able to get the ball away quicker with faster and more direct distribution, have the ability to take the ball into the line and offload more effectively, suddenly find some pace, put in the hard yards when req’d (a la O’Loughlin), or break from the scrum base faster in defence than the current incumbent, also have the ability through fair means of physically hurting your opponents and stopping them off-loading, whatever strategies and game plans anyone may have in how we are going to win this game, our defence will surely be relied upon to perform to it’s maximum, and to have a choice of KS or K O’L tackling me throughout a match, I know which I would prefer.

Also, in your opinion as the game progresses Mr. Sinfield after performing the functions of a 13, in which he will be required to do the hard yards and the tackling (as above), plus the distribution and the tactical kicking, will then have the energy to slot into the No. 9 slot, where if he is to perform with aplomb will have to do more tackling - directly in the middle, set up plays with running from dummy half, the dummy half distribution and also his tactical kicking. Phew I am getting exhausted just writing it, seriously modern coaches use two hookers to perform this role because of the effort required, and I would not expect O’Loughlin to have the vigour to revert to hooker after the energy he spends at 13. Please explain why if KS is to be as effective as O’Loughlin or Roby as a 13 or 9 throughout the game, or have the ability and energy to perform both.

For heavens sake, this is the world cup semi-final and we are playing New Zealand, this is not Leeds playing one of the lower SL teams where Mr. Sinfield could possibly multi-task, we require every player to be on top of their game and fatigue is the main cause of lapses in concentration and performing to your best.

I look forward to seeing your explanation, you stated that you had a long time to think of you selection, LE’s valued interpretation is eagerly awaited.
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#46 Viking Warrior

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

Grow up.


thats not very nice is it kevin??
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#47 Joe Whitley

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:12 AM

This is not a witch hunt but could someone please explain to me this enigma that is Kevin Sinfield, in Rugby League terms to a lot of people he takes on the status of a Demi-God, to me it is one of the great conundrums as is “why do men have nipples”

I have been involved in this great game for over 50 years first attending a pro match in 1959 I have played, coached, observed, and am still an avid student and spectator, in that time I have had the pleasure of seeing some of the games all time greats, some very good players, some average and some not so good.

Albeit, I concede that Mr. Sinfield has been an above average club player, and has been an integral cog in a very good Leeds team, a team which has also contained some other very notable long standing players that have also been an essential and fundamental part of the whole gear train that is the Leeds club.

In the list of my supreme, most excellent players Mr. Sinfield would not reach the plateau he has been elevated up to, I consider that he ahs been afforded plaudits in excess of his capabilities, in fact off the top of my head he would not be included in the top 100 of the players I have observed.

In the 4 positions of stand off, scrum half, loose forward or hooker he would not make my top 20 in any of those positions, and as it has been suggested by many on this forum he is not the most accomplished in any of those positions in this squad.

As I said Joe, I have been watching this game for a long period, people base their opinions on their experiences and observations, judging by your “avatar” (unless that is poetic licence), like may others who submit to this forum your experiences are based on a shorter timescale than are mine, and thus would have fewer participants, so if you were to list “your best” I would imagine that Mr. Sinfield would have a higher ranking than I have.

Sorry I digress, back to the topic.

Joe, you state that want Mr. Sinfield to replace O’Loughlin and in your words:-

I'd then relegate O'Loughlin to the bench (I know, he's brilliant, but hear me out) and stick Sinfield at loose forward, where I think he is most effective.

So in your opinion O’Loughlin is brilliant but still you want him replacing in the loose forward position with Sinfield, I can only assume that you consider KS more than brilliant< (I can’t think of an adjective to describe more than brilliant so we will leave it there).

Joe you say we need to new half backs and state This way you inject new life into the side through two clever and fast halfbacks, get rid of the dead wood. This statement I most wholeheartedly support.

Please explain to me what you consider Mr. Sinfield is going to bring extra to the team other than just saying keep hold of one of your most experienced forwards. He would still be positioned at first or second receiver no matter what number he had on his back other than if he were to play 9, or is it that having the 13 shirt on he will suddenly be able to get the ball away quicker with faster and more direct distribution, have the ability to take the ball into the line and offload more effectively, suddenly find some pace, put in the hard yards when req’d (a la O’Loughlin), or break from the scrum base faster in defence than the current incumbent, also have the ability through fair means of physically hurting your opponents and stopping them off-loading, whatever strategies and game plans anyone may have in how we are going to win this game, our defence will surely be relied upon to perform to it’s maximum, and to have a choice of KS or K O’L tackling me throughout a match, I know which I would prefer.

Also, in your opinion as the game progresses Mr. Sinfield after performing the functions of a 13, in which he will be required to do the hard yards and the tackling (as above), plus the distribution and the tactical kicking, will then have the energy to slot into the No. 9 slot, where if he is to perform with aplomb will have to do more tackling - directly in the middle, set up plays with running from dummy half, the dummy half distribution and also his tactical kicking. Phew I am getting exhausted just writing it, seriously modern coaches use two hookers to perform this role because of the effort required, and I would not expect O’Loughlin to have the vigour to revert to hooker after the energy he spends at 13. Please explain why if KS is to be as effective as O’Loughlin or Roby as a 13 or 9 throughout the game, or have the ability and energy to perform both.

For heavens sake, this is the world cup semi-final and we are playing New Zealand, this is not Leeds playing one of the lower SL teams where Mr. Sinfield could possibly multi-task, we require every player to be on top of their game and fatigue is the main cause of lapses in concentration and performing to your best.

I look forward to seeing your explanation, you stated that you had a long time to think of you selection, LE’s valued interpretation is eagerly awaited.

 

I will have to wait to reply to this as it is obviously going to take some time, but what I will say is this sounds a lot like a Sinfield witch-hunt, even though you claim the opposite.


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#48 GaryO

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:24 AM

I will have to wait to reply to this as it is obviously going to take some time, but what I will say is this sounds a lot like a Sinfield witch-hunt, even though you claim the opposite.


I really did mean that it is not a witch-hunt, I have over the years appreciated his play, but as I say opinions are what they are, you have now got my thoughts to your "headline suggestions" I am happy to observe your contradictions to my thinking and will peruse your next post with an open mind. Thanks for replying.
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#49 Just Browny

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:01 PM

Just to be clear, Sinfield and Chase have more experience of playing against the Kangaroos than Widdop does. So the poll is inaccurate.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#50 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:18 PM

Just to be clear, Sinfield and Chase have more experience of playing against the Kangaroos than Widdop does. So the poll is inaccurate.

 

 

That says it well for me, Do you go for more  experience or more ability. KS is unquestionably way down the pecking order in ability ( these days ) but he will be pretty much unrivalled in experience.

 

It's all a matter of opinion, Someone wants to drop the best LF in SL to fit him in that position.

 

We have had players in there with even more experience up to this year, with very little success, time to give players like Rachford  ( as someone has mentioned ) and people who have been in form a go for me.

 

However it's all too late now , so we have to get behind whoever is picked.


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#51 tuutaisrambo

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

How long was he banned for that?

3 matches

 

http://www.mirror.co...-tangis-1677043

 

Sinfield is captain so like or lump it he's playing unless he gets injured.

 

I can't see Case's tricks working against quality opposition so i'd play Widdop


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#52 GaryO

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

I will have to wait to reply to this as it is obviously going to take some time, but what I will say is this sounds a lot like a Sinfield witch-hunt, even though you claim the opposite.

 

Well, well Joe, I at least thought that you would have had the decency to reply, after all you alleged that I was claiming the opposite to what I printed. 

 

I would have thought that you would have welcomed the opportunity to explain you’re reasons for the positional changes you suggested to the England team, and challenge the subsequent explanation of my thoughts in how they deviated from yours. .

 

Still awaiting with anticipation. 


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#53 Joe Whitley

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:10 PM

Well, well Joe, I at least thought that you would have had the decency to reply, after all you alleged that I was claiming the opposite to what I printed. 

 

I would have thought that you would have welcomed the opportunity to explain you’re reasons for the positional changes you suggested to the England team, and challenge the subsequent explanation of my thoughts in how they deviated from yours. .

 

Still awaiting with anticipation. 

 

Sorry Gary, pretty snowed under. Feel free to email me to discuss further.


Edited by Joe Whitley, 22 November 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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