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Labour - No benefits for under 25's...

Genius

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31 replies to this topic

#21 Wolford6

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

There are never enough train drivers

 

 

Sorry John, but you are absolutely wrong about this.

 

http://www.traindriv...Conditions.html


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#22 JohnM

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:39 AM

My location is not relevant. It is a constant cry in the London area that trains have been cancelled owing to ss shortage of drivers.

Clearly in CKN's area, there are jobs for rail engineers as he said.

#23 Copa

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:55 AM

Parents better change their locks! Little Johnny will be moving back home as soon as he loses his job.


Too bad if you've been working solidly for a few years, married with kids but aren't old enough to get assistance if you lose your job...what then?

#24 Griff9of13

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:27 AM

My location is not relevant. It is a constant cry in the London area that trains have been cancelled owing to ss shortage of drivers.

Clearly in CKN's area, there are jobs for rail engineers as he said.

 
But not everyone has the aptitude to become a train driver even if there were actually thousands of vacancies. This is from the site Wolford referred to:
 

Group Bourdon test:
Without doubt, the most dreaded of all the tests for prospective Trainee Train Drivers. This is a concentration and accuracy test - you will be expected to maintain a good level of work rate through the test, and not make any mistakes. It's a balancing act, you don't want to go too slow, but you don't want to go too fast and make mistakes as a result! I would guess that this has the highest failure rate of any part of the whole process. In my assessment class of 10, five people failed at this stage.
What does it involve? Rows and rows of patterns, 25 patterns across. Each pattern contains dots, ranging from 3 dots to 6 dots. Your task is to cross out all the patterns containing 4 dots. This is harder than it sounds, as after a few minutes, all the dots seem to blur into a mass of inky blobs... There is only one way to be sure you will pass this test, can you guess what it is? Practice, practice, and practice some more. I would say it requires even more practice than all the others, but you will notice that with enough practice, your speed and accuracy will improve tremendously.


When you combine the 50% who fail that stage of the process with the failures of other stages and medical etc and the actual number vacancies it doesn't put much of a dent in the jobless figures. It also says there are in excess of 300 applicants per vacancy. Oh, and you need to be over 21 to apply as well :rolleyes:
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#25 JohnM

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:40 PM

I'm sure its not easy. There are  shortages of skilled and qualified people in many area of work. To what extent (or how) should we support people who messed around at school instead of working hard?

 

On the "300" applicants per vacancy"  front, is something you read about quite often,  These days, it is so easy to apply on-line for jobs I wonder how many people apply for hundreds of jobs. For each one of the three hundred applicants also apply for  multiple vacancies, it makes the figures somewhat misleading. 

 

A bit like the zero hours contracts fuss.....how many people on zero hours contracts have more than one contract?



#26 ckn

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:09 PM

I'm sure its not easy. There are  shortages of skilled and qualified people in many area of work. To what extent (or how) should we support people who messed around at school instead of working hard?

 

On the "300" applicants per vacancy"  front, is something you read about quite often,  These days, it is so easy to apply on-line for jobs I wonder how many people apply for hundreds of jobs. For each one of the three hundred applicants also apply for  multiple vacancies, it makes the figures somewhat misleading. 

 

A bit like the zero hours contracts fuss.....how many people on zero hours contracts have more than one contract?

You're right in that.  There's a group of jobhunters that the recruitment agents call the "F5-apply" type: if there's a role that they're even vaguely suited for doing, regardless of how vague, they'll apply.  They sit on the job boards all day just hitting F5 to refresh their screens and hit apply to anything that comes in within minutes of it being posted.  One agent I know automatically deletes anything received in the first 20-30 minutes that a job has been posted as there's no way that someone could really get the role in, read and understand it properly, adjust their CV to match and type a bespoke covering letter in less than that.

 

IT jobs advertised on the likes of Jobserve tend to get 200-500 applicants per role even if it's written so tightly that there are probably only a few people in the UK who can do it, more loosely written roles can get over 1000 applicants.  Of those, at least 25-50% are foreign nationals without a visa hoping to get a sponsored role, the percentage depends on the type of role, management type roles get lower numbers of foreign nationals applying, skilled based roles get more.  Of the rest, the vast majority are desperate people after a chance at a job who aren't remotely qualified for the role, many outright lie on their CVs about their experience to try to con the recruiters.  There's usually only a small handful of applicants who genuinely match all the skills and experience criteria the recruiter has asked for.

 

It's a bit brutal out there in the job hunting market!


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#27 Griff9of13

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:25 PM

You're right in that.  There's a group of jobhunters that the recruitment agents call the "F5-apply" type: if there's a role that they're even vaguely suited for doing, regardless of how vague, they'll apply.  They sit on the job boards all day just hitting F5 to refresh their screens and hit apply to anything that comes in within minutes of it being posted.  One agent I know automatically deletes anything received in the first 20-30 minutes that a job has been posted as there's no way that someone could really get the role in, read and understand it properly, adjust their CV to match and type a bespoke covering letter in less than that.

 

IT jobs advertised on the likes of Jobserve tend to get 200-500 applicants per role even if it's written so tightly that there are probably only a few people in the UK who can do it, more loosely written roles can get over 1000 applicants.  Of those, at least 25-50% are foreign nationals without a visa hoping to get a sponsored role, the percentage depends on the type of role, management type roles get lower numbers of foreign nationals applying, skilled based roles get more.  Of the rest, the vast majority are desperate people after a chance at a job who aren't remotely qualified for the role, many outright lie on their CVs about their experience to try to con the recruiters.  There's usually only a small handful of applicants who genuinely match all the skills and experience criteria the recruiter has asked for.

 

It's a bit brutal out there in the job hunting market!

 

...and the F5 apply approach is now something that is positivity encouraged by the Job Centre with it's arbitrary applications targets. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#28 JohnM

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:55 PM

Siemens currently list 237 UK vacancies: https://jobsearch.si...kmuZb0en5ZRmic=

 

Nissan: http://careersatnissan.co.uk/

 

Nat Grid: https://natgriduk.ta...t/jobsearch.ftl

 

Thing is, you have to have some level of capability and be able to relocate probably, and the UK housing  farce militates against that.



#29 Griff9of13

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

Siemens currently list 237 UK vacancies: https://jobsearch.si...kmuZb0en5ZRmic=

 

Nissan: http://careersatnissan.co.uk/

 

Nat Grid: https://natgriduk.ta...t/jobsearch.ftl

 

Thing is, you have to have some level of capability and be able to relocate probably, and the UK housing  farce militates against that.

 

Yes, there may be jobs out there but how many of those you have linked to would accept people with little or no experience? This is the main issue facing the under 25s, many who have invested heavily in going to university as they were told over the last decade or so that this was the way to go only to now find they have a degree that in some ways is useless without some form of work experience to back it up and a debt of 10s of thousands of pounds to go with it. 

 

A friend of mine graduated this year with a degree in event management and has been trying to find something since the beginning of the summer with no luck. This despite him working for full time in his chosen field for 12 months as part of his sandwich course. Everything he has applied for has come back the same "yes, you're very good, but you haven't got enough experience". And these are advertised as trainee level jobs. He continues to work behind the bar/in the kitchen at my local. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#30 JohnM

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

understood.  my eldest granddaughter, 22,   is currently seeking work and the job center has passed her on to an organization they have paid to find her a job.  they tried to persuade her to be self employed but she just doesn't have it in her. They are now putting her through dummy interviews prior to he going for a real interview with a company in Dover.

 

 

Here's how one event organiser got into it: http://blog.brightne...ager-at-google/

 

 I know the European VP of Marketing at a 2 billion $ software company quite well. I aslo knew him in 1998 when he joined the company I used to work for. He joined as a temp on the switchboard.

 

I know a guy who has recently returned from Australia where he  was a "Director" in one of the global big four consultancies.  I first met him in 1993 when he worked in the post room at the company I worked at in Guildford.



#31 Griff9of13

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:32 PM

understood.  my eldest granddaughter, 22,   is currently seeking work and the job center has passed her on to an organization they have paid to find her a job.  they tried to persuade her to be self employed but she just doesn't have it in her. They are now putting her through dummy interviews prior to he going for a real interview with a company in Dover.

 

 

Here's how one event organiser got into it: http://blog.brightne...ager-at-google/

 

 I know the European VP of Marketing at a 2 billion $ software company quite well. I aslo knew him in 1998 when he joined the company I used to work for. He joined as a temp on the switchboard.

 

I know a guy who has recently returned from Australia where he  was a "Director" in one of the global big four consultancies.  I first met him in 1993 when he worked in the post room at the company I worked at in Guildford.

 

They are great stories John, but are those sort of things still possible, or are too many companies out there expecting to be able to hire 'the finished article' these days that is the question.

 

I do however know for a fact not all large corporations work that way. The company I work for for example. For the last three years I have been involved as a lecturer on our graduate training program where we take a cohort of graduates, usually straight from university and put them through an eight week full time training program at the end of which they have to complete a formal assessment. The whole process is accredited by The University of Derby and if they pass the assessment they receive UCAS credits which can form part of a formal degree award. Once they have been through this training program they then move on to junior roles on our project teams. I do get the impression from talking to people I know in the industry that this is pretty rare though. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#32 JohnM

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:53 PM

I think they are possible but less likely.  TimE was when looking for a job in a job centre was the last resort. Only employers who paid the least so couldn't get anyone used that route.

 

The ###### of an MD at the last company I ever worked for was of the belief that they were so good a company that the could choose the best candidates, ones that already did the same or better job somewhere else. That is what they did after he'd been there two years..they got someone else.

 

I guess one problem is that for a number of people, their get up and go has got up and gone. There is no easy way..sometimes it a matter of trailing round the industrial estates and knocking on doors.


Edited by JohnM, 25 November 2013 - 05:05 PM.





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