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The Ashes... again!


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#41 Phil

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

.  Either that or just a few "accidental" beamers to the gobby ones when they come out to bat.

 

 

 

When I played, anyone who sent me for a boundary or had owt to say always got a couple round the lugholes.


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#42 marklaspalmas

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 01:35 PM

This is so bad it goes way beyond 'drop A for B' style tweaking. The team has absolutely fallen apart.

 

I stand by my statement that the Aussies are pretty mediocre, but we've made them look like all-time greats. Johnson is in rare form. I see no comeback for us in this series now.

 

Those who took the plaudits now have to take the brickbats, presumably with the same bad grace.


 

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#43 Futtocks

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:49 AM

I wouldn't call the Aussies mediocre, but they are good. A fair way off being a brilliant team, though.

 

England, on the other hand, are falling to bits and making their opponents look far better than they are. Whoever came up with their "hook at all costs" tactic needs a punch in the 'nads.


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#44 Futtocks

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

There was another Captain Cook whose first trip down under was a huge success.

 

The next time, in 1779, he got slaughtered...


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#45 ckn

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

I wouldn't call the Aussies mediocre, but they are good. A fair way off being a brilliant team, though.

 

England, on the other hand, are falling to bits and making their opponents look far better than they are. Whoever came up with their "hook at all costs" tactic needs a punch in the 'nads.

Broad needs to be dropped to give his ego a kick.  4 wickets in hand, a deteriorating weather forecast and he comes out swinging like it's the last over of a T20 international.  He'd be sorely missed for the test he's dropped for but that ego really needs to be put in its place.  Also, every other batsman who got out to a hook should be sent for a 6 hour nets session with almost every ball aimed between head and shoulders with a few occasional yorkers to keep their mind on the game.

 

On the team's structure:  Cook and Carberry look like a good opening pair if they could just have a couple of innings to play together without one of them going quickly.  The problem of having Root at 3 is that it looks to everyone as if you don't trust your opening batsmen to stay in for any time as Root plays like a classic opening batsman.  I'd be tempted to move him back to 5 or 6 to act as the solid last big batsman and have Pietersen at 3, Bell at 4.  Pietersen might be a big name but 4 should go to your best batsman and that's Bell by a very long way.

 

Prior saved himself from being dropped with his last innings score but he really should be concentrating on what the team wants him to achieve at number 7, act as a solid wicket when there's a proper batsman opposite him to give a platform for a long innings and act as a scoremaker when he's left with bowlers.  He comes in almost like he's the last great batsman left in the team when he's not, if he returned to playing to his strengths as a supporting act then he'd be a lot better for the team.

 

Something seems to have gone wrong with Swann, he looks about as threatening as a minor counties occasional ball chucker.  It's not the pitches either as Lyon is looking far more threatening despite not being anywhere near as good.  I'd be tempted to drop him for the next game and go with Panesar, putting the pressure on the batsmen above to cover Panesar's almost guaranteed single figure batting and his indifferent fielding.  There's something about Panesar's bowling that causes batsmen to self-destruct and that's about what's needed, he does need a good bowler at the other end to keep pressure up though.

 

On Anderson, he seems to have lost his line and length.  In the past, when he played on pitches that didn't swing he had a different line and length that caused almost as much trouble.  I think he'd get a lot of benefit from working with a coach on where the Aussies are hitting the pitch and seeing what that length would do for him


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#46 Futtocks

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:04 PM

Funny how those Aussies who have been saying for the last 8 years that they're not interested in Cricket are suddenly becoming fans all over again. :biggrin:


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#47 tim2

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:28 PM

The bowlers seem to have finally had enough of covering for the shaky batting line up. Trott's gradual decline (caused by other teams working out how to stop him scoring, and then how to get him out) has been followed by Cook dipping in form and Pietersen deciding that there isn't a problem and continuing to do whatever he wants in any given situation. Behind them are younger players who have yet to become the finished article. I believe that the likes of Root, Ballance, Stokes and Bairstow will be the future of the team but right now Cook, Bell, Pietersen and Prior have to step up to the plate and be the rock that the younger guys can get protection behind.

Sides seem to have had the idea to get after Swann and so far it largely hasn't worked. However, has his recent op taken something out of him? Only he really knows. I wouldn't drop Broad - he's too good.

As for the Aussies - I rate Clarke and Haddin very highly but the rest are more than beatable. Even Johnson, who no longer bowls to the left or right, is a form bowler who could implode if someone got after him, or perhaps shaved off his tache Samson-style. Harris is good and Siddle gives the captain control but none of them are Glenn McGrath, let alone Lillee and Thomson. Lyon ain't Shane Warne either.

For what its worth, these Ashes are gone and its time to man up and see how much damage limitation can be done. We have India, Australia again and South Africa to come. If We get roughed up by Johnson and Harris, what the heck is going to happen when Stein, Morkel and Philander get stuck in to us?
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#48 Wolford6

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

There's a lot of pressure on Prior.

 

No wonder he's lost form, the top order have had a recent tendency to always collapse, leaving him to try and do a salvage job. I'd bat  him at 3 and tell him to play his natural game. No one else is scoring runs there anyway. Let Root marshall the tail.

 

For Perth, I'd drop Swann and bring in Bresnan ... I'd  prefer Rankin but we need to prop up the batting and fielding.


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#49 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:46 PM

Why did they make England favourites?
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#50 marklaspalmas

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:21 PM

England have shown a really alarming lack of bottle too which suggests the problems go deeper than tweaking the line up (like shuffling deck chairs on the titanic).

 

And now we go to the WACA. God help us. That ground there is no need whatsoever for a spinner. KP and Root can do the little that will be required. This is handy as Swann's utter disintegration is almost as spectacular as Trott's. Completely innocuous bowler he is now. Monty is not really the answer either. So Stokes at 7 and Bressy and 8 for mine, and if Tremble doesn't play, he never will.

 

Prior's a lucky ##### as well, saved his bacon with that (largely irrelevant) knock. Odds on we don't get past 250 either innings. This is depressing. I think this team and its hangers on been a bit smug and it's come back to bite them on the rear.


 

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#51 tigersfan

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 04:06 PM

A team beginning to believe its own publicity

Players thinking they are undroppable



#52 Andrew Vause

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:55 PM

One thing England have often done since I started watching test matches in 1974 is let teams off of the hook such that momemtum changes. Recently we have had Australia in the 200s for 5 or 6. Haddin, Johnson, Harris, Siddle and Agar in the summer have all had momentum changing innings in the last 2 series.
I remember in the West Indies hay day England once a series would have them reeling Richards, Haynes, Greenidge and Lloyd would be back in the hutch and you think at last we've got em only fir Dujon to make a hundred with Gomes or Marshall supporting.

I temember a one day game at Old Trafford in 84. We had Windies 70 odd fir 7 after about 30 overs only for Richards and Holding to add an unbeaten 200 for the tenth wicket.


In Australia's hay day we'd occasionally have them 100 for plenty then Warne or Healy would weigh in to double the total. It's so frustrating fir me to see us having teams by the shirt and curlies only to let them off the hook.


We never seem to have the same tail wagability.

#53 marklaspalmas

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

140 odd for 5 to 320 odd for 6. Let them off the hook again. Onto 400 tomorrow I imagine.

 

On current form we'll struggle to make anywhere near that and have to bat last............unless we're following on. :(


 

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#54 Andrew Vause

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:02 PM

One thing England have often done since I started watching test matches in 1974 is let teams off of the hook such that momemtum changes. Recently we have had Australia in the 200s for 5 or 6. Haddin, Johnson, Harris, Siddle and Agar in the summer have all had momentum changing innings in the last 2 series.
I remember in the West Indies hay day England once a series would have them reeling Richards, Haynes, Greenidge and Lloyd would be back in the hutch and you think at last we've got em only fir Dujon to make a hundred with Gomes or Marshall supporting.
I temember a one day game at Old Trafford in 84. We had Windies 70 odd fir 7 after about 30 overs only for Richards and Holding to add an unbeaten 200 for the tenth wicket.
In Australia's hay day we'd occasionally have them 100 for plenty then Warne or Healy would weigh in to double the total. It's so frustrating fir me to see us having teams by the shirt and curlies only to let them off the hook.
We never seem to have the same tail wagability.

As David Coverdale almost once sang........Here we go again.....

Edited by Andrew Vause, 13 December 2013 - 07:05 PM.


#55 ckn

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

Matt Prior ...  Maybe he's trying to see how much he can mess up before being dropped.


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#56 marklaspalmas

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

Im giving up posting on this thread. The sweary filter will render my contributions illegible.

 

Suffice to say, it's been disgraceful.


 

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#57 Kiwi-Capper_merged

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:02 PM

I had to turn over and watch a replay of the darts.

 

I think England will have some success there.



#58 Futtocks

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:26 AM

Gordon Bennett! There's going to be some heads rolling when England get home after this series.

 

Stokes 72 not out though, which is a decent knock, but there's no way we will bat three full sessions tomorrow.


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#59 gingerjon

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:14 PM

Root has had a couple of unlucky ones (a call that might have been reversed and then an excellent catch) but that's small comfort.  I didn't see Bell's dismissal but apparently it was a bit controversial.  The rest just don't even look like they know how to play cricket any more.


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#60 Wolford6

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:54 PM

The  England bowling, fielding and tactical performance in the morning session was an absolute shambles. Bowlers were routinely going for ten runs an over and Cook never remotely looked like taking charge. Captaincy has got on top of him and he needs a break.

 

No bowler seemed able to diminish the scoring opportunities they were offering. Anderson, ostensibly the "captain" of the bowling attack, all but gave up.

 

If the team loses tomorrow, the series is gone and so Cook and Anderson could be rested ... perhaps camouflaged by an unexpected back spasm etc.

 

Trouble is, who would captain the side? Unfortunately, the answer is no-one, so Cook has to stay and play.

 

If I was Andy Flower, I'd tell Cook to forget about his media responsibilities, fly to Fiji and spend a week on the beach.


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