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Manu Vatuvei out!


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#1 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:23 PM

This is huge for England!

 

COME ON LADS!!


Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#2 Father Ted

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:26 PM

Nightingale in and he's good, very good!

#3 Banbury Wolf

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:27 PM

Nightingale in and he's good, very good!

 

Yep, only a slight - possibly negligible edge lost there.



#4 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

DIsagree - nowhere near as good as Vatuvei


Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#5 Futtocks

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:33 PM

Nightingale is very good . He offers a different threat to Vatuvei - not as explosive, but more of an all-round player. Fewer technical weaknesses to exploit.


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#6 Banbury Wolf

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:33 PM

DIsagree - nowhere near as good as Vatuvei

 

It's true that Vatu. was in good form, so in that sense, Nightingale coming in might not be quite as effective.

Can't remember if Nightingale has played this WC? I'm guessing he has with Kearney's squad rotation.


Edited by Banbury Wolf, 21 November 2013 - 04:34 PM.


#7 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

I don'tthink he has. For those of us traumatised by his 4 try effort in 2008, not having him facing us is a massive plus. Nightingale is good, but his strengths are more predictable and conventional. Our wingers are good enough to nullify him, whereas with Manu every time the ball went in the air in that direction we'd have been in trouble...



#8 Eldujo

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:14 PM

Vatuvei is better offensively, Nightingale better defensively.

 

Still a nice bit of good fortune for England as I was always worried the size and speed of Manu might terrify whoever we had out there. Neither Charnley or Briscoe have the bulk to give you any confidence they could handle him at full pelt. Nightingale is solid and good under the bomb both in defence and attack but is not the game changer Vatuvei can be.



#9 GeordieSaint

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:50 PM

Happier with Nightingale than Vatuvei; both good players but Vatuvei offers more for mine. I hope we look to exploit the loss of height and ball returning capabilities on that wing plus pepper Locke with plenty of high kicks...


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#10 Southerner

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 06:58 PM

Whilst I don't like to see players injured... YES GET IN!!! massive plus for England. He's been in top form and they'll miss him.

#11 mt smart

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:43 PM

Manu is a Enigma you never know which beast will show up.

 

When he is in a patch of form it tends to last a  while , half a dozen games at least , and he always plays well for NZ.

 

Manu was going well.

 

Nightingale offers different things as people have said , though I think the biggest Worry for us is that Nightingale is out of form , In his run against the Cook Islands he looked really shaky on Defence , and that's about as bad as it gets , nice finisher but no freak.

 

Still they have Roger Tuivasa Sheck who offers both skill sets.

 

 

Frank Pritchards Hamstring strain has got folk far more nervous. Him and Vatuvei out would spell disaster for the NZ Left side threat. 

 

The main thing Manu does is return the ball fast and he plays the ball fast , the rest of the set rolls off nicely from Manu's running.

 

When he's been off the field the team loses considerable momentum.

 

Glad they ruled out toying with the idea of Leaving Manu's name on the sheet in case he recovers at the eleventh hour , we've seen it time and again with him....no better way to ensure NZ lose a player early as Manu limps off after ten minutes.....it's the way he plays the game like a Prop that makes him so prone to injury....



#12 kier

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:08 PM

After an off season were Vatuvai concentrated on boxing training a lot of his defensive issues were addressed - he's now a lot lighter on his feet and was able to turn much quicker when defending against the kick.  Which I always thought was his worst defensive trait.

 

There is a great deal of mythology about his poor defending in my opinion.  He had a SHOCKING games about seven years ago against the Eels and it's constantly being referenced whenever he plays.

 

Considering the amount of work he gets through (and more importantly the type of work he gets through) his error rate is no worse than any other winger or fullback.  Slater, as an example, does not cop anything like the flak Vatuvai does yet he's guilty of some very ordinary errors and brain fades.  

 

I have never thought he's deserved the criticism he's received - any team would take him without a moments hesitation.  The fact he's out is a massive boost to England.  Especially (as Mt Smart has pointed out) Nightingale is not playing exceptionally well at the moment.  Nightingale is a good player but does not cause the problems for defensive structures that Manu does.

 

Vatuvai can begin an attacking set as a prop and then finish it off as well as any other winger.  Ten metres from the line he can also score tries that few others could manage.

 

Speaking with my England hat on I'm relieved he's not there.  As a Warriors fan I really hope it's nothing serious.


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#13 Simon Kerr

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

I agree with Kearney...  Rest Manu for the final!! ;)


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#14 Saintslass

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:18 PM

Isn't Nightingale the player who quite likes throwing the ball into touch? 

 

(ETA: He did it a few times in his last game in the WC if memory serves)


Edited by Saintslass, 21 November 2013 - 10:19 PM.





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