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Playing the blame game

rlwc2013 england new zealand kevin sinfield ryan hall george burgess wembley

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#1 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

England's cruel World Cup exit yesterday nearly brought me to tears (no lie, it's the worst I've felt since Gareth Southgate missed that penalty in Euro '96), and like any other invested fan I was left thinking what might have been.

 

On my Twitter feed, though, I noticed a lot of people trying to assign blame. I am interested to hear what you all think of the following three incidents that could have potentially changed the outcome of the game. Personally, I think all three were 'just one of those things' and wouldn't like to single out anyone for losing the match. It was seriously unfortunate and not what any of the team deserved. 

 

Item #1

George Burgess' late high tackle

Was it careless and stupid or simply a product of the lad working himself to the bone and being too tired to do anything else?

 

Item #2 

Kevin Sinfield's charge off the line

Did it leave a massive gap for Johnson to score or was it a necessity as they were extremely vulnerable anyway?

 

Item #3

Ryan Hall's interception-fumble

Should he have taken it cleanly or left it altogether? Did it make a difference?

 

 


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#2 Wolford6

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:49 PM

The way the BBC broadcast director focussed in relentlessly on George Burgess at the end of the game was voyeuristic. He/she should be ashamed and moved to studio projects, because he/she knows nothing about team sport. England lost as a team; they would have won as a team but got beaten as the result of two pieces of individual NZ flair.

 

To try and wordlessly pillory a young lad who had put his body on the line for his country ... and probably earned less for this tournament than the BBC OB director was shameful.

 

I wonder if  it was the same director who got Tanya Arnold to quiz Sam Tomkin about  the NRL immediately after the Cup Final. No sense of occasion and definitely no class.


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#3 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:50 PM

I'm like you in that I have the attitude of 'one of those things' - there are loads of mistakes each game, some are more crucial than others, but hey, that's RL.

 

On the actual events, I do think there were more to add to the above. 

 

Ryan Hall's defensive read for a Kiwi try was poor, and he does have that in his game.

 

Kevin Sinfield's poor kick option with 2 minutes to go was more crucial than most things. It was 78 mins gone. It was the difference between the Kiwis having 1 set or 2. They needed 2 sets to score.

 

The fact is that mistakes happen, that's why sport is so exciting, we are seeing human beings put their body on the line and push themselves physically and mentally. You can point to events and discuss them and assign 'blame' but it is wrong to criticise the players - they all did their best and it was very very nearly good enough.



#4 walter sobchak

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:52 PM

I don't blame anybody and put it down to an epic battle between two sides that threw everything they had at each other which produced that amazing last minute passage of play, Quite simply a sporting encounter played at its very peak and maximum level.

#5 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:53 PM

The way the BBC broadcast director focussed in relentlessly on George Burgess at the end of the game was voyeuristic. He/she should be ashamed and moved to studio projects, because he/she knows nothing about team sport. England lost as a team; they would have won as a team but got beaten as the result of two pieces of individual NZ flair.

 

To try and wordlessly pillory a young lad who had put his body on the line for his country ... and probably earned less for this tournament than the BBC OB director was shameful.

 

I wonder if  it was the same director who got Tanya Arnold to quiz Sam Tomkin about  the NRL immediately after the Cup Final. No sense of occasion and definitely no class.

 

I couldn't agree more. He was constantly taking the ball in and making key tackles. It was so unfortunate that it happened to him. You must bear in mind, too, he was tackling Sonny Bill Williams and probably trying to stop him offloading. So sad.

 

I agree on the BBC front, too. Very poor effort from that point of view. Though saying that I was quite impressed with the commentators. 


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#6 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:57 PM

I'm like you in that I have the attitude of 'one of those things' - there are loads of mistakes each game, some are more crucial than others, but hey, that's RL.

 

On the actual events, I do think there were more to add to the above. 

 

Ryan Hall's defensive read for a Kiwi try was poor, and he does have that in his game.

 

Kevin Sinfield's poor kick option with 2 minutes to go was more crucial than most things. It was 78 mins gone. It was the difference between the Kiwis having 1 set or 2. They needed 2 sets to score.

 

The fact is that mistakes happen, that's why sport is so exciting, we are seeing human beings put their body on the line and push themselves physically and mentally. You can point to events and discuss them and assign 'blame' but it is wrong to criticise the players - they all did their best and it was very very nearly good enough.

 

I agree. You could also add into the mix Sinfield's missed conversion that wasn't too difficult. And while we're at it, Leroy Cudjoe failed to stop both Tuivasa-Sheck tries when he got to him at least five metres out. But as you all rightly say, it's a team game and mistakes are just part of it. It's such a shame, though - imagine what it would have done for the UK's appreciation of RL if we got to the final and maybe won it...


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#7 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

I don't blame anybody and put it down to an epic battle between two sides that threw everything they had at each other which produced that amazing last minute passage of play, Quite simply a sporting encounter played at its very peak and maximum level.

 

That's definitely the best way of looking at it, Walter. Just chatting in the office and I genuinely think it was up there with the best games I have ever had the pleasure of watching - regardless of sport.


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#8 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:00 PM

O'Loughlin - 2 silly penalties in quick succession
o'Loughlin - dropped ball on first tackle in NZ 20, 3 yds out
Tomkins - dropped ball on first tackle - NZ scored straight after

You can look absolutely all over the place but I really don't get the point of this thread.

Unles of course you want to blame Wigan based n the above! :)
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#9 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

You could also mention O'Loughlin's two knock-ons.


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#10 walter sobchak

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

That's definitely the best way of looking at it, Walter. Just chatting in the office and I genuinely think it was up there with the best games I have ever had the pleasure of watching - regardless of sport.


Yep, it's up their with italia 90' semi-final, euro 96' semi-final and the 2nd test at old Trafford in the 1990 ashes series for me, sporting occasions that leave you shaking for days.

#11 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:09 PM

I blame Roby for passing to Sinfield on the short side leaving no room for anything other than the kick he did.

I blame Widdop for the centerfield bomb on the 75th minute.

I Blame Blah blah blah

 

I'm sorry, Is this another thread on the same subject?  It was a great game, leave it!


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#12 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:10 PM

I blame Roby for passing to Sinfield on the short side leaving no room for anything other than the kick he did.

I blame Widdop for the centerfield bomb on the 75th minute.

I Blame Blah blah blah

 

I'm sorry, Is this another thread on the same subject?  It was a great game, leave it!

This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?



#13 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:15 PM

This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?

Discussion is great.  It's the picking on individual players, one play, negative one eyed rubbish that is annoying. 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#14 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:16 PM

Discussion is great.  It's the picking on individual players, one play, negative one eyed rubbish that is annoying. 

But read the thread - that hasn't happened.



#15 JohnM

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:17 PM

No. Though to pick on individual incidents as if the player either made a mistake or somehow could have avoided making one and then relating them to the eventual outcome is not in my view logical.To play the " if only" game you also have to say"if only Mrs Burgess had 13 children."

#16 Dave T

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

No. Though to pick on individual incidents as if the player either made a mistake or somehow could have avoided making one and then relating them to the eventual outcome is not in my view logical.To play the " if only" game you also have to say"if only Mrs Burgess had 13 children."

Players did make mistakes.

 

Are we not allowed to discuss them?



#17 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:22 PM

O'Loughlin - 2 silly penalties in quick succession
o'Loughlin - dropped ball on first tackle in NZ 20, 3 yds out
Tomkins - dropped ball on first tackle - NZ scored straight after

You can look absolutely all over the place but I really don't get the point of this thread.

Unles of course you want to blame Wigan based n the above! :)

 

The point of the thread is to discover what people thought - should blame be assigned or is it 'just one of those things'.


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#18 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

Yep, it's up their with italia 90' semi-final, euro 96' semi-final and the 2nd test at old Trafford in the 1990 ashes series for me, sporting occasions that leave you shaking for days.

  

Exactly. I was laid in bed last night reliving every pass!


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#19 JohnM

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:24 PM

Yes. Of course. Just don't expect a sympathetic hearing. For each mistake an English player made, a Kiwis player made one too. Look at the big picture.

#20 Joe Whitley

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:24 PM

This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?

 

+1

 

We are only interested to hear what people think, no need to try shoot the thread down!


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