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Scottish Independence Referendum


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Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country? (40 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  1. Yes (20 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (20 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#281 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:08 AM

Not much about how to get the pound the SNP would have to give up various controls and keep Trident?  All seems to be how its a victory for Salmond.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#282 ckn

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:13 AM

Makes you wonder why the fearless and fervently anti- government  Guardian didn't  publish the name of the ( presumably ex- ) Minister, given the secrets they have leaked over the years. Unless...well..maybe....

Sources have to be protected if they want to keep getting things like this.  I'd assume you'd respect that the Guardian has proven that they'll do anything to protect a source.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#283 JohnM

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

Yes, of course.But how much more of a hatchet job they could have done if they'd named him.   Now they've left me wondering if he exists at all. 



#284 John Drake

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 06:08 PM

Makes you wonder why the fearless and fervently anti- government  Guardian didn't  publish the name of the ( presumably ex- ) Minister, given the secrets they have leaked over the years. Unless...well..maybe....


Have you read The Guardian since 2010? It's hardly 'anti-government' these days. Editorially, it has often given the coalition the easiest of rides, probably because they urged their readers to vote Liberal Democrat in the last election.

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#285 JohnM

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:40 PM

Doesn't seem that way..though I only read the on-line edition in parts. I'm losing stamina as I age. http://www.theguardi...k/commentisfree  is hardly fulsome support for Cameron



#286 Bob8

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

That is a shame.  Johann Hari was always the most hideous part of the newspaper and I thought his disgrace would improve it.


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#287 RidingPie

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:44 AM

Doesn't seem that way..though I only read the on-line edition in parts. I'm losing stamina as I age. http://www.theguardi...k/commentisfree  is hardly fulsome support for Cameron

 

Comment is free (the page you've linked to) is about generating discussion and I believe anyone can submit stuff to be put in there (whether they do put it on the site is another matter).

 

As someone who doesn't mind the Guardian (or the Telegraph to be honest) I often find the articles on Cif (as the regulars like to call it) the most hate filled diatribe this side of the daily mail.

 

Maybe we should have a competition to see who can get an article on it! 



#288 JohnM

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:03 AM

:fie:

.

.

.

.

.

. :)  :)

 

To be honest, I find the Indy  not too bad. Its clearly not independent any more..I just find the unrelenting miserable aesceticism of The Guardian quite depressing. If that's what Lid-demism is about, then no wonder they are doing so poorly. I think though that really The Guardian is just "against everything..all the time."


Edited by JohnM, 01 April 2014 - 08:08 AM.


#289 John Drake

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:45 PM

Doesn't seem that way..though I only read the on-line edition in parts. I'm losing stamina as I age. http://www.theguardi...k/commentisfree  is hardly fulsome support for Cameron

 

I didn't say it was pro-Tory. There are quite enough British newspapers filling that particular quota without the Grauniad joining the love-in. But it cannot accurately be described as 'anti-government' these days. It has, at times, been utterly blind in its admiration of Cleggism at work in the coalition and this nauseating piece, from today's edition, reads like a press release from Conservative Central Office, so fulsome is it in praise of the latest disingenuous guff from George Osborne on 'full employment'.

 

http://www.theguardi...illion-new-jobs

 

They quite often help to stick the boot directly into Labour too. Another example from today:

http://www.theguardi...t-len-mccluskey

 

Not that this has anything to do with the Scottish Independence referendum, so apologies for going slightly off topic! ;)


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#290 JohnM

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:09 AM

Apology accepted on behalf of the whole forum. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

So where are we up to poll-wise? What the latest betting?

 

BTW, I am still in favour of complete independence, honestly.  Trying to manage a country of 5 million surely has to be easier than trying to manage a United Kingdom of 60 million.



#291 ckn

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:33 AM

Apology accepted on behalf of the whole forum. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

So where are we up to poll-wise? What the latest betting?

 

BTW, I am still in favour of complete independence, honestly.  Trying to manage a country of 5 million surely has to be easier than trying to manage a United Kingdom of 60 million.

Which is why I was in favour of regional assemblies.  The north of England has quite significantly different priorities, needs and political leanings than the south west, same with the other regions of the UK.  Of the substantive regions of the UK, we have semi- to quite powerful regional assemblies in London, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the rest of the country has to put up with what they get from Westminster and their county councils.  Doesn't make the case for independence though.

 

The Scots elected a party to their regional assembly that had a manifesto item of delivering a referendum on independence, they're delivering that promise and aren't doing that bad a job of making the case.  I can't see them making it past the post though, there are quite a few people who will happily vote SNP for a party but will be voting no in the referendum.  If they are to make it, it'll take a few more momentous errors from the Better Together lot rather than good politicking from the SNP.  Maybe a leaflet drop with a picture of Maggie Thatcher and a caption of "Maggie would have wanted us to stay together".


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#292 John Drake

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

Apology accepted on behalf of the whole forum. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

Very gracious. :)

 

Meanwhile (and very much on topic! ) ...

 

Ban Scots from voting at 2015 General Election if they gain independence, say Tories

http://www.independe...es-9234135.html

 

Slightly misleading headline, it should say 'some Tories'. Anyone would think they were trying to encourage the Scots to vote yes!

 

Even if the referendum is a yes to independence, it won't happen overnight and until such time as it does happen, Scotland should be fully represented in the UK Parliament.


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#293 MikeW

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:06 PM

Very gracious. :)

 

Meanwhile (and very much on topic! ) ...

 

Ban Scots from voting at 2015 General Election if they gain independence, say Tories

http://www.independe...es-9234135.html

 

Slightly misleading headline, it should say 'some Tories'. Anyone would think they were trying to encourage the Scots to vote yes!

 

Even if the referendum is a yes to independence, it won't happen overnight and until such time as it does happen, Scotland should be fully represented in the UK Parliament.

I'm surprised after reading that that Scottish MPs still get to vote on matters which are of no concern to Scotland.



#294 Saintslass

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:01 PM


Even if the referendum is a yes to independence, it won't happen overnight and until such time as it does happen, Scotland should be fully represented in the UK Parliament.

It will have effectively happened overnight as they will have said yes to independence.  Therefore, they have said no to the UK and shouldn't play any further part in Westminster elections.  Likewise, any Scottish MPs in Parliament from that point forward should be barred from voting in any issue at Westminster as they could seriously prejudice legislation and policy which would be nothing to do with Scots.



#295 bearman

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:42 PM

Today's edition of the Daily Mail argues that of there were to be a "Yes" vote there would have to be a General Election as the loss of 59 MPs ( 41 Labour) would radically alter the political landscape.
A net loss of 40 Labour MPs would be a major problem for the Labour Party.
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#296 JohnM

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:18 PM

Saturday 12th April. 15.00 hrs.

 

On TV now:  Nuremburg Rally, Salmond style



#297 Trojan

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:12 PM

It will have effectively happened overnight as they will have said yes to independence.  Therefore, they have said no to the UK and shouldn't play any further part in Westminster elections.  Likewise, any Scottish MPs in Parliament from that point forward should be barred from voting in any issue at Westminster as they could seriously prejudice legislation and policy which would be nothing to do with Scots.

This is pure hypocrisy.  Not having a majority in Scotland didn't stop the Thatcher government from introducing the Poll Tax there first. 


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#298 Saintslass

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 08:30 PM

This is pure hypocrisy.  Not having a majority in Scotland didn't stop the Thatcher government from introducing the Poll Tax there first. 

What's that got to do with anything?  Completely irrelevant since Scotland wasn't independent.



#299 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:24 PM

This is pure hypocrisy.  Not having a majority in Scotland didn't stop the Thatcher government from introducing the Poll Tax there first. 

The Tories had a majority in the UK of which Scotland is part. Labour didn't have a majority in the South East of England when Blair & Brown were in power, was their administration undemocratic?

 

Hardly the same as a government majority that exists solely because of foreigners having representation in a parliament.



#300 ckn

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:39 PM

I think it's fairly settled ground that politicians will happily experiment on areas where they're not going to gain many votes.  For Thatcher, that was the north of England, Wales and Scotland.  Blair was so intent on getting the votes of the south that he didn't push too far.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway





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